#thoughts on a cleaver design folder

Radial or Chisel or neither

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
D

dogz

Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
18
Just after some advise really please,
machined a couple of blank blades today from aluminum to give me a rough idea on size, shape , feel.
Thoughts on the design bad or good , maybe to big could go smaller ?
One has a radial and the other a chisel type front end.

Maybe leaving these with a machined type finish face with a ground edge & In a material like rwl34 or similar.
I'm in the UK so unfortunately resources are not as good.
Titanium body.

When It comes to bearings I was thinking of maybe heading down the .187 pivot route with ball bearings and a hardened washer, anyone have any advise on if I should use a larger Diameter bearing face or .187 ok ?
https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/product/187-pivot-bearings

Thanks
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I can definitely see some use out of it. Seems like it would be a decent woodworking pattern. i do wonder about the chisel a little bit, but if you have a good handle, i can see it playing out ok. I would flatten that angle on the front end chisel though, and make it like a run of the mill flat chisel, as opposed to slightly angled. The whole chisel edge will be covered by the handle, right?

I know you are talking about using ball bearings and washers and that is cool and all, but do you plan on making this an assisted opener? I do not really know if i like the idea of a blade with that much weight swinging around quickly like that, seems like it would be easier and a lot less wear heavy to have a smooth non-assisted opening.

All in all, meh. I'd use it if I didnt have a chisel handy.
 
A cleaver is supposed to chop. The flipper and the negative rake on the cutting edge kinda defeats the point. Cutting veggies or meat the flipper will hit the cutting board and the rake leaves a huge gap.
 
You should make a hatchet with this shape, only half kidding, it might be cool, especially if the back were some kind of modified claw hammer/ pry bar type deal.
As a folder, to me, it's like there's just too much going on to be used as a cutting tool. Simpler edges are more utilitarian because they're a more easily manipulated shape for the hand.
 
Naysayers I see! I, however, think this is a really cool idea.

I voted chisel end because I think that that diagonal spine would help to reinforce that "tip", and also make sharpening a little easier.

Also, if this knife locks, wouldn't it be illegal to carry in the UK? Not that I think it should be illegal.
 
I think a chisel shape will be easier to keep from blending the edges. With a radial bevel, you will end up with all sorts of odd shapes as people try to sharpen it.

Chisel-tip blades are always going to be a niche idea, but I liked my Razel.

Just make sure it's really truly a chisel grind, with the one side being the bevel, and the other side being flat. Because a symmetrical bevel is a bxtch to restore if a co-worker messes up the apex for you!

The overall shape is good, or at least I don't see anything objectively bad about it. I would remove the flipper tab, though. You've got an opener hole already, and the tab is going to get in the way during flat cutting.

I'm going to say no to Titanium for the body, and recommend something stainless.

When you shape a blade like that, you are asking for people to use it like a scraper, which will put some unusual lateral load on your pivot, and Ti is very tough, but not the most bend-resistant material. You want a body that is going to be able to absorb repeated lateral force without plastic deformation, and there are better materials for that.
 
looking through the replies maybe I should have a rethink on the design then especially the chisel end. appreciate the feedback good or bad. thanks
 
Shorttime said:
I think a chisel shape will be easier to keep from blending the edges. With a radial bevel, you will end up with all sorts of odd shapes as people try to sharpen it.

Chisel-tip blades are always going to be a niche idea, but I liked my Razel.

Just make sure it's really truly a chisel grind, with the one side being the bevel, and the other side being flat. Because a symmetrical bevel is a bxtch to restore if a co-worker messes up the apex for you!

The overall shape is good, or at least I don't see anything objectively bad about it. I would remove the flipper tab, though. You've got an opener hole already, and the tab is going to get in the way during flat cutting.

I'm going to say no to Titanium for the body, and recommend something stainless.

When you shape a blade like that, you are asking for people to use it like a scraper, which will put some unusual lateral load on your pivot, and Ti is very tough, but not the most bend-resistant material. You want a body that is going to be able to absorb repeated lateral force without plastic deformation, and there are better materials for that.
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Really good advice with some good points to take on board,
Clearly it shows my Lack of experience when it comes to designing a blade but I have to start from some where I guess

abcdef said:
Probably good advice.
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Yep I think it’s back to the drawing board
 
D dogz , it feels like you're trying to make something with lots of flash and style, to attract attention. I can see where it would seem like you need to do that, to get noticed in a very busy market segment.

The thing is, this chisel-shaped blade implies that you're building a knife for dirty knuckle-draggers like me, who want something hard and simple. Something that just works.

If you want to see a chisel knife that is 80% right, look at the CRKT/Graham Folding Razel. Not the stubby, the regular size.
The ergonomics of that knife are very, very good, but it would have helped if the slabs were 0.125" thinner on each side, because it takes up a lot of space.

The pocket clip sucks, and it would be nice to see something like the wide paddle clips on the Cold Steel AD-10.

Finally (as I said eariler), if you're going to make a chisel grind, don't chicken out and use symmetrical bevels. Knives for guys who don't know how to sharpen, should be easy to maintain.
 
For a cleaver type folding knife, I’d probably go for a saber grind. It’s a fairly robust grind that should be suited for chopping motions. I could probably see this knife performing as a sort of a food prep tool, chopping vegetables and whatnot. Perhaps when out camping where it wouldn’t be practical to pack your entire kitchen knife set. That’s just me.

Check out the Spyderco Roc. Anyway, best of luck.
 
When I need a cleaver, it is for food prep, or butchering a big game critter.
A 7 or 8 inch cleaver is the smallest size I find practical/useable. (they are sharpened on both sides, too. No chisel grind.)

What is a folding pocket cleaver used for? Honest question. I have no idea what it would be used for. :)
 
dogz said:
Really good advice with some good points to take on board,
Clearly it shows my Lack of experience when it comes to designing a blade but I have to start from some where I guess


Yep I think it’s back to the drawing board
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You've got machine talent and a creative bent. What are you after? Just something unique? Who are you targeting? Committed to this style? Function over form or form over function?

I don't like anything about the seemingly growing tend in clever type folders. But, that said, they seem to be a growing trend... I suspect it'll be short lived but that's cool.

Keep at it! :thumbsup:
 
Thanks guys ,
I've checked out the knives you've all suggested in the comments.
To be honest when I was drawing this up,
in my mind I was maybe leaning more towards the looks and some have suggested the attraction side of it more so then the actual practical side, mainly what the a knife's purpose is to be used for, I'm glad for the feedback especially the con's as this is what helps me understand the faults.

I like the cleaver type style, I just didnt want to go down the same route as many other with the same/similar designs and maybe this is where I went wrong.
 
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A lot of people here are more of practical knives guys - including me - so you might get some ”micro agression” for this sort of design. I think your design would work great with the tip cutting things or rope cutting (like sailor knives and such) but that being said I think it’s just too clunky and limited for me.

Don’t take that as hate, just opinion. There are lots of ”hipster knives” out there these days and it causes a lot of frustration with people, me included who are bit more conservative and know what they like. :)

Best of luck!
 
small update : decided after all the help and advice to move away from the original design.

so did a prototype after playing around with some ideas.
Unsure on what sort of grind on the blade but staying away from the chisel front and after a more simple design.
Awaiting on Pivot pins and so on to test fit but still miles away from a finished product but I'm enjoying the learning experience on how to go about machining and creating.
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Why a cleaver shaped blade ? (not versatile). Why a flipping tab + hole in the blade (Wo, wo, wo....too much goodness there) ? Why an all steel build (heavy !) ? You realize the blade could be 1/4" longer ? Why not ?
Serious answers / questions, honestly. I'm thrilled by new designs but often disappointed when it just goes down the trendy alley.
 
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