Thoughts on MagnaCut

jjg6319

jjg6319

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MagnaCut steel has been around for a little while now and I was curious what your thoughts are on this steel versus the S35VN or S45VN blades for CRK? It looked to me that CRK has been using a heat treatment higher than others and if you have other brands do you think the CRK knives hold an edge longer? Any comments would be appreciated. I have some 21s and have not got a Magnacut model yet. :)
 
I like it well enough. Gets screaming sharp. Doesn’t stay that way long. Forms a nice keen working edge pretty quick and stays that way forever. Touches up real quick and easy in my spyderco. Wasn’t too bad to reprofile initially. At least that’s how it has worked out for me. It doesn’t roll the edge near as easily as the s35vn does (it doesn’t roll at all and I seemed to always have a spot on my old one that needed a realign).

My experience only. Def not hard use. Quite easy use actually.
 
I only have one knife in Magnacut, a small Insingo Sebenza. It holds a good working edge that is easy to maintain with stropping. It takes some time to get it back to hair popping sharp.
I haven't rolled the edge on it, i believe it is too hard for that, but I've chipped it twice. The first time I hit a nail very gently and the second time I dropped it down on some tiles. The knife was closed but opened on impact. I acknowledge that my clumsiness is to blame for the chipping. Also that I haven't been babysitting for this knife. It's default user.
 
I’ve enjoyed the MC Sebenzas and Inkosi I’ve owned and used. Sharpest factory edges I’ve ever seen. Great edge holding and super simple to maintain.

I’ve since moved back to mostly S30V and S35VN because that’s what the knives I find myself carrying these days were made with. They are still as great as they always were but if they had a MagnaCut option I’d have it.
 
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Front end sharpness lasts about as long as most production M390, although the latter seems to hold a working edge longer than MC. I did have one tiny chip on an MC insingo when I was cutting a chicken breast on the grill and the knife slipped, impacting the metal grill itself. However, I've had other impacts resulting in no edge damage. One was against aluminum tubing. It may be worth mentioning that the grill incident involved the factory edge.

Comparing Sebenzas, I think the MC represents a large enough boost in edge retention over s35vn that to be meaningful, especially if we're talking about older s35vn in the 58 to 59 range. However, I don't think it's life altering.

For me the biggest benefit of thr MC is the increase in strength. A lot less rolling over than s35. The s45 was pretty good, though.
 
SVTFreak said:
I like it well enough. Gets screaming sharp. Doesn’t stay that way long. Forms a nice keen working edge pretty quick and stays that way forever. Touches up real quick and easy in my spyderco. Wasn’t too bad to reprofile initially. At least that’s how it has worked out for me. It doesn’t roll the edge near as easily as the s35vn does (it doesn’t roll at all and I seemed to always have a spot on my old one that needed a realign).

My experience only. Def not hard use. Quite easy use actually.
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Exactly my experience. Took the edge on my Magnacut Native 5 lightweight down to 15 dps fairly easy with my TS Prof, now it is a screaming sharp little bugger. I keep it that way by stropping it at least once a week with 1 micron diamond paste.
 
I've wanted to try MagnaCut for some time, and thought I'd go with an Inkosi, a knife I've wanted to try. I already have a Sebenza in S35VN.

But I'm worried about the hardness. An Rc of 63-64 strips away half of MagnaCut's toughness, for only a small gain in abrasive wear and a much higher risk of chipping. For me, the appeal and genius of MagnaCut was its high toughness. But that toughness is gone at 64 Rc.

Has Chris Reeve Knives explained its decision to run the steel this hard?
 
I've thought about getting one in Magnacut. I have a few knives in the newer steels, but I've found that for my purposes, S35VN has just the right balance of edge holding & toughness. Plus, it's fairly easy to keep a good working edge on.
 
S30V for me. I like soft steel. Magnacut is nice to, but I liked S30V better.
 
Twindog said:
I've wanted to try MagnaCut for some time, and thought I'd go with an Inkosi, a knife I've wanted to try. I already have a Sebenza in S35VN.

But I'm worried about the hardness. An Rc of 63-64 strips away half of MagnaCut's toughness, for only a small gain in abrasive wear and a much higher risk of chipping. For me, the appeal and genius of MagnaCut was its high toughness. But that toughness is gone at 64 Rc.

Has Chris Reeve Knives explained its decision to run the steel this hard?
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Your data seems....off.

Great video, if you want to skip to where he corrects you, fast forward to 10:50

 
I have thoughts but no experience, so it would be perfectly reasonable to stop reading my post before going further.

Academically I understand the value of MagnaCut better than the average knife nut. Practically, I don’t expect I personally will experience a significant difference from 35VN so I haven’t purchased one. Im not knocking it, I believe it’s superior, but my cutting demands and my sharpening skills likely have a bigger influence than the performance improvement. I honestly think this is true for most of us, but I do understand why the pursuit of performance is part of the hobby for many.

MC at higher hardness has better edge retention and as good or better resistance to chipping than S35VN. That is really neat. If you wish your S35VN blades had better edge retention, MC may very well give you that what you.
 
Twindog said:
I've wanted to try MagnaCut for some time, and thought I'd go with an Inkosi, a knife I've wanted to try. I already have a Sebenza in S35VN.

But I'm worried about the hardness. An Rc of 63-64 strips away half of MagnaCut's toughness, for only a small gain in abrasive wear and a much higher risk of chipping. For me, the appeal and genius of MagnaCut was its high toughness. But that toughness is gone at 64 Rc.

Has Chris Reeve Knives explained its decision to run the steel this hard?
Click to expand...
Kettleman Kettleman pointed you in the right direction. I don’t think the data supports your concerns unless you were unhappy with chipping of S35VN and you needed higher toughness. In that case I’m not sure 64Rc MC is markedly better.
 
I saw that other thread that T Twindog is referring to. I'm not qualified to weigh in on metallurgy, but it may be worth mentioning that Larrin Larrin did not create that diagram. The concern about losing much toughness @ 63 hrc also seems to contradict other things I've read and heard. I would love to understand better.
 
Modernflame said:
I saw that other thread that T Twindog is referring to. I'm not qualified to weigh in on metallurgy, but it may be worth mentioning that Larrin Larrin did not create that diagram. The concern about losing much toughness @ 63 hrc also seems to contradict other things I've read and heard. I would love to understand better.
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Interesting. I haven’t seen the thread. I suppose you could heat treat MC in a way that increases hardness and decreases toughness but I’d speculate CRK would be “doing it right”. There are a ton of variables, and I generally avoid metallurgy debates on bladeforums so I think I’ll just bow out of this one before it starts and go back to stopping my 1095 😉
 
I have a small in s45vn, and a large in magnacut. The biggest difference I've noticed between the two in my case is that it seems to be a bit easier to coax a very nice edge onto the magnacut. This might be just from technique, and I can get the s45vn plenty sharp, but the magnacut is just a bit more cooperative.
 
Kettleman said:
Your data seems....off.

Great video, if you want to skip to where he corrects you, fast forward to 10:50

Click to expand...

Thank you for that link, Kettleman Kettleman . I looked at Larrin's chart, which marginally different than the one being discussed in general, and which Larrin saw and commented on but did not correct.

It looks like MagnaCut at 64 Rc drops to the toughness of Vanax ( a great steel) and S35VN and Elmax run at typical hardnesses for knives. So the big toughness advantage of MagnaCut is lost for about a 6 percent gain in abrasive wear. That's not a tradeoff I would make. I'm curios why CRK did make that choice.

Here's Larrin's chart from the link posted by Kettleman.

2v2eWVeSzxAWtWs.jpg
 
Twindog said:
Thank you for that link, Kettleman Kettleman . I looked at Larrin's chart, which marginally different than the one being discussed in general, and which Larrin saw and commented on but did not correct.

It looks like MagnaCut at 64 Rc drops to the toughness of Vanax ( a great steel) and S35VN and Elmax run at typical hardnesses for knives. So the big toughness advantage of MagnaCut is lost for about a 6 percent gain in abrasive wear. That's not a tradeoff I would make. I'm curios why CRK did make that choice.

Here's Larrin's chart from the link posted by Kettleman.

2v2eWVeSzxAWtWs.jpg
Click to expand...
I've never been the smartest dude in the room, but it looks to me like the toughness of magnacut on that chart drops only marginally from 61 to 63 hrc. Something like 17 to 15 foot pounds. The drop is steeper from 64 to 65 hrc.

The tradeoff would be not only edge retention but strength, which is valuable in a folder.
 
Twindog said:
Thank you for that link, Kettleman Kettleman . I looked at Larrin's chart, which marginally different than the one being discussed in general, and which Larrin saw and commented on but did not correct.

It looks like MagnaCut at 64 Rc drops to the toughness of Vanax ( a great steel) and S35VN and Elmax run at typical hardnesses for knives. So the big toughness advantage of MagnaCut is lost for about a 6 percent gain in abrasive wear. That's not a tradeoff I would make. I'm curios why CRK did make that choice.

Here's Larrin's chart from the link posted by Kettleman.

2v2eWVeSzxAWtWs.jpg
Click to expand...
Looking at it differently, you could say that at 64 rc magnacut is as tough as s35vn at 59-60 rc. Now, if s35vn is not tough enough for your use, magnacut at 64 rc might not be either, but it still depends on how you loose the edge. Increased strength has the benefit that the edge deforms less and that itself might prevent it from dulling. You will also have increased edge retention from less deformation (rolling, denting, etc), so it is not just wear resistance that is the benefit of higher hardness in this case. Besides in a small folder if toughness on s35vn is not enough than there are few high wear resistance stainless steels that would work and you would have to look at less wear resistant steels or to change geometry.
 
Twindog said:
Thank you for that link, Kettleman Kettleman . I looked at Larrin's chart, which marginally different than the one being discussed in general, and which Larrin saw and commented on but did not correct.

It looks like MagnaCut at 64 Rc drops to the toughness of Vanax ( a great steel) and S35VN and Elmax run at typical hardnesses for knives. So the big toughness advantage of MagnaCut is lost for about a 6 percent gain in abrasive wear. That's not a tradeoff I would make. I'm curios why CRK did make that choice.

Here's Larrin's chart from the link posted by Kettleman.

2v2eWVeSzxAWtWs.jpg
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say the big advantage of MC is lost, when the whole point was having high hardness and toughness together in a wear-resistant stainless steel.

Looking closer at the chart Larrin provided, MC @ 63-64 HRC appears to be 25% to 50% tougher than S35VN at 61 HRC, but with the added benefit of higher hardness. Higher toughness and higher hardness should mean you can use lower edge angles without fear of chipping or rolling, improving real-world edge retention.

It's also worth discussing if abrasive wear resistance linearly correlates with real-world edge retention for your use cases. There are testers out there who claim that the MC experience at higher hardnesses is better than the 6% increase in abrasive wear resistance would suggest.
 
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