Thoughts on Pakistani Damascus and Pakistani knives in general

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Hale Storm

Hale Storm

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I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on doing business with companies that import Damascus and Damascus knives here to the U.S.

I see more and more Pakistani and Indian made knives at the local gun shows here. When I ask where the steel comes from or who made the knives, almost everyone wants to dodge the question and not admit the steel came from Pakistan.

There were never any of these guys at my local shows (we have a gun show about 50 weekends out of the year somewhere around here), and now there seems to be a new one popping up once a month. Last show I went to their were 5 different guys selling these Damascus knives. Folders and fixed blades.

I look forward to reading everyone's comments.
 
In the past I haven't had the best of luck with knives made in Pakistan. Won't hold an edge, rusts easily, just garbage....but recently I bought a Frost Cutlery sunfish that was made in Pakistan, and for the money, (about $12.) I was impressed. It's actually a pretty good little beater. I've used it a lot and it's held up. Not damascus steel, but not bad.
 
Pakistan has come a long way in recent years. Mostly in their final fit and finish. Unfortunately the materials aspect and heat treat are pretty much non existent. The damascus they make over there hits really really low on the rockwell. Something stupid low if I remember correctly. If you are the collector that simply appreciates beauty and have an appreciation for old world hand made knife making or if you appreciate knives made in a cottage industry environment then I think they have some merit. But as a tool or a serious collectors piece? Im afraid pakistan just doesnt deliver. Now if they could get the materials on par with the execution then you would have something. But I suspect if they were to upgrade the materials it would make it hard enough for them to work that you would be right back to poor fit and finish.
 
Im not a fan....but i also stopped going to gun shows long ago when they stopped being gun shows and the bargains disappeared and got taken over by beef jerky, regular gun dealers selling their same store stuff at top dollar, and junk knives, etc. , then again making a buck is making a buck....but do you want to have to lie and mislead sucker buyers? Trying to convince them to buy bad and useless for using, knives? All to make a buck? I wouldn't. I like to sleep at night.
 
I suggest reviewing the other pakistan damascus knife threads. They pop up at least once per month.
 
I had a big lock back paki clone called the bullet as a car knife. It was fine, steel a little soft and it was heavy, but useful knife. Was good enough to be stolen when the car was jacked.
 
I would most certainly avoid every generalisation and prejudice comments here...Pakistan and India are both countries with extensive history of knife making and surely there are bad,as there are good products out there i think.Cheap low grade steel is of course very common in low price market in Pakistan,as it is in China or USA.If you get a knife priced at 10-20 bucks do you think there will be difference in steel quality coming from any of these countries? I highly doubt that.... I am sure,if you look into high end products, you will find it everywhere included Pakistan,but you will have to also pay premium price for it,not the price of Big Mac burger you pay for Ebay knife and than complaining over its quality, expecting this to be made of L6 steel heat treated by NASA.(only my opinion)
 
Unfortunately, most are a waste of materials. I wouldn't have a problem with them if they were marketed as display knives; instead many try to pretend they are handmade custom knives which they are not.
 
Seriousbladeno1 said:
I would most certainly avoid every generalisation and prejudice comments here...Pakistan and India are both countries with extensive history of knife making and surely there are bad,as there are good products out there i think.Cheap low grade steel is of course very common in low price market in Pakistan,as it is in China or USA.If you get a knife priced at 10-20 bucks do you think there will be difference in steel quality coming from any of these countries? I highly doubt that.... I am sure,if you look into high end products, you will find it everywhere included Pakistan,but you will have to also pay premium price for it,not the price of Big Mac burger you pay for Ebay knife and than complaining over its quality, expecting this to be made of L6 steel heat treated by NASA.(only my opinion)
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I don't disagree with this at some levels but how do you know high quality from cheap display knives? It's hard to find makers with a reputation for quality from over there and the market is flooded with the cheap steel that won't hold up under even moderate use. I see tables full of hand made customs over here with blades over 5"-6 " and exotic handles that are priced at less than $100.00, but some over that price. Certainly more expensive than a Big Mac. I own Busse, Chris Reeve, etc. so I understand the price of a quality blade. I never see high end here that is in line with U.S. makers unless it is U.S. makers. Over the years, I've seen a few U.S. makers come to the shows with real high quality stuff and blades made from Alabama Damascus, custom hand forged Damascus, and even some Chad Nichols stuff. They can't compete on price and most have stopped coming to the shows because the influx of the cheap steels and knives. Seems like this influx is hurting the U.S. maker.
Someone also mentioned the terrorism aspect. Aren't things pretty troubled over there in U.S. /Pakistani relations? Didin't we find Bin Laden being trained there? Haven't Americans been harmed over there? I'm just trying to understand why Americans would choose to buy from there or sell there products.
 
jbmonkey said:
Im not a fan....but i also stopped going to gun shows long ago when they stopped being gun shows and the bargains disappeared and got taken over by beef jerky, regular gun dealers selling their same store stuff at top dollar, and junk knives, etc. , then again making a buck is making a buck....but do you want to have to lie and mislead sucker buyers? Trying to convince them to buy bad and useless for using, knives? All to make a buck? I wouldn't. I like to sleep at night.
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You said it right jbmonkey. We have the same here. Lots of beef jerky. But ours are large enough you can usually find a deal or two. And it's true that almost all of the dealers here in the area are at the shows selling retail. In the past I've even found guns cheaper at local dealers brick and mortar locations that were cheaper than gun show prices. But these guys are trying to stay in business and a gun show brings thousands and thousands of customers by their tables compared to the retail location. I know some dealers that closed the store and only work the gun shows now. Sorry, I'm derailing my own thread here.

I forgot to mention the tables full of Chinese gas station knives. I frequently give young kids looking at knives with parents at the Chinese junk, a nice U.S. made Buck or an SAK. After they buy the Chinese junk for $5.00 I give them a nice $20-$25 Buck, or SAK and ask them to go use both. I know they'll never buy another China piece after that.
 
I have had a couple guys bring me Pakis to sharpen for them. They always load my stones quicker than chalk and will never keep an edge. The problem is that we are looking to try and buy high quality at super low prices. That will not happen no matter where it is from. I will spend a few extra dollars and buy from a US maker.
 
I won't touch Pakistani or Chinese knives for the simple reason that I don't know enough about them
to tell the difference between good and bad.
 
It is inevitable that as Pakistan modernizes and industrializes, the more industrious citizens will begin offering more competitive products in many industries. Given Pakistan's long tradition of cottage industry knifemaking and gunsmithing, those two industries will be sure to see the effect. I'm hoping it's soon though, because right now there's just floods of crap and copies coming out and negating whatever impact any good stuff (if there is any) can have on their reputation, and in the case of some of the poorly made Khyber Pass guns there's some actually dangerous crap potentially endangering unsuspecting buyers.

But hey, 20 years ago no one would have thought Reate or Kizer quality knives would be coming out of China and 60 years ago no one thought anything good could come from Japan. So we'll see what happens.
 
I'm sure Pakistan can make a good knife, and India certainly can. The problem is right now, especially on the Pakistani end, you never know what you are going to get. For every quality knife I see from there, there's 100 of dubious construction, etc.... The most prevalent being weak tang construction or bad heat treatment.

What needs to happen in Pakistan is for a reputable company in the U.S. knife business to long term invest in it like they did with Japan in the late 70's, India in the 80's, Taiwan in the 90's, China in the 2000's, etc.... This is a tough road to hoe given Pakistan's lackluster reputation.
 
I just removed 5 political comments frim this thread and awarded the posters a warning each. I have also closed the thread. Nothing new was offeref. Just search Pakistani damascus for much more of the same.

Do not post political or ethnic remaeks in the Geneeal Knife Discussion.
 
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