Thoughts on Paris

SASSAS

SASSAS

Joined
Aug 16, 2005
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616
Off topic, so I wanted to post over here. I spent a week in Paris from Friday to Friday.

You wouldn't know anything going on in the suburbs was happening from the way people acted within the city. There are no visible special measures and there is no panic.

Overall, they're amused at our over-reaction. As one person put it, "America is acting like there is a civil war in France or something." They also seem to really enjoy watching our news people point to the wrong place on the map when referring to Paris (or pretty much any place in France).

Since the burning cars thing happens so often, they don't seem to be terribly impressed by additional volume. The whole riot thing seems to leave them largely unfazed.

The French have political demonstrations about pretty much anything they aren't happy with in government to the extent that people consider how close they are to the most common demonstration location when looking for an appartment.

An exchange student from Cyprus once told me that Americans don't take politics or their right to vote seriously enough. He said it is common there for violence to be associated with an election or just about anything else political, and not just from the poor.

On other notes:

Paris has to have more attractive women per capita than anyplace I've ever been. If you're into fake breasts, fake nails, fake tans, etc. then you probably wouldn't be happy, but if you just like seeing a lot of naturally pretty women, it's a heck of a place.

This is my third trip, each a week long and each 4-5 years apart. The French are getting bigger. The young people are taller. There are also more people carrying some extra weight. Nowhere near as many as here, and I didn't see a single person grossly obese. I also saw more McDonald's and other fast food places and they were busier, so go figure.

The food was excellent as always. It's always tough on business trips, because people always want to go to upscale, multi-course, rather formal dinners, which I can only do about once a week comfortably. But, when I could go out on my own, there were some excellent informal dining places with outstanding food at prices lower than I'd pay in the states. The cafes are great for a nice quick breakfast with coffee (espresso) and a croissant, torte, etc.

I always here a lot about how rude the French are, but I don't see it when I'm there. If anything, the people are much more polite than I see everyday here.

There are some beautiful sabres available for sale. Under $2000 for the most part even in the Louvre de Antiques, the upscale set of antique shops across from the Louvre. I was sorely tempted by a couple. Antiques in Paris are absolutely gorgeous, and some things are so beautiful that it's almost impossible to resist buying them regardless of what they actually are.

I really enjoy the museums, particularly the Musee de Orsay and the Egyptian collection at the Louvre. They have a lot more original Egyptian stone than I've been able to see over here (a lot of the big items at the Smithsonian are actually copies of stuff from the British museum). I also like the smaller museums such as the Musee Rodin and such. They aren't on organized tours much from what I've seen, so if you ever go, be sure to scout them out. In general, the organized tours I've seen are awful, just someone walking you from standard item to standard item in a rush. There is a lot to see and it can take some time to dig out, but those things I've dicovered myself are the ones I have the fondest memories of and have a lot more personal meaning to me.
 
SASSAS said:
Off topic, so I wanted to post over here. I spent a week in Paris from Friday to Friday.

Paris has to have more attractive women per capita than anyplace I've ever been. If you're into fake breasts, fake nails, fake tans, etc. then you probably wouldn't be happy, but if you just like seeing a lot of naturally pretty women, it's a heck of a place.
Click to expand...

Glad you had a good trip.

Frank
 
I was considering going to Paris in June with my wife, but was put off by the "uprising." It sounds like it might be worth a trip.
We have never been to Paris....
It is a choice of Paris or Dublin...I have conferences at both places.
 
Paris is very beautifull, just stay in the tourist area's and watch your back at night. IMHO it beats Dublin :)
 
Making light of mass rioting continuing for days outside of heavily controlled urban areas smacks of denial. That's OK with me. I mean, the US has its own brand of denial. WE all do. This thread is refreshingly French. Sounds like more than a little fiddling is going on while Rome is burning, to misapply a city and phrase.


I don't plan on visiting France within my lifetime. I have no desire to see SF again or NY for that matter.
But then, I'm a curmugeon in his own denial.
Freedom of choice. I choose to believe the world is faceing a fundemental crisis of terrorism and the French do not. I mean, as long as 'life' continues much as it has 'normally' in Paris everything is OK, right? Sure.

Silly Americans. Silly French. Silly us.


munk
 
An exchange student from Cyprus once told me that Americans ....
Click to expand...

See what I mean about Europeans and Australians and their tendency to tell Americans what Americans are like?
(In their oh-so educated opinions)

My only guess is that so many other countires watch our movies and television and think they know us. they may think that our TV and Movies are accurate depictions of reality, and not the very liberal, a-religious, sex and violence crap that producers use to sell products.
 
DannyinJapan said:
See what I mean about Europeans and Australians and their tendency to tell Americans what Americans are like?
(In their oh-so educated opinions)
Click to expand...

I think you're taking this the wrong way... Based on having lived here for a few years, including during an election and seeing how people around him behaved and having access to all of our local media, he compared it to the behavior of people and events in his country during a similar situation. This wasn't someone I met there, it was a guy I knew here in the U.S. that I included as comparison.

Edit to note - Not as much taken the wrong way as I failed to communicate this clearly originally.
 
DannyinJapan said:
sorry if i misunderstood.
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I just wrote poorly...

It sticks in my mind, because at the time I was kind offended about it. Lately, I've come to believe more and more that he was right. I don't know if he was right then and I just hadn't seen enough of life to recognize it or I was too immature to admit it, or if I feel more people in America have become sheeple now.

I too have encountered Europeans (none of the Australians I've met have ever done it) who feel they know what America and Americans are like despite not having ever been to America and never having spent much time around Americans.
 
Thank you for telling us about your trip! It's nice to hear something about Paris that doesn't include all sortsa negative perceptions these days. I sometimes think about trying to go to the Middle East as a laborer, which would pretty much make Paris a pretty accessible place to meet my family at some point in time. Maybe some day I'll still make it there. It'd sure be nice to get out of Alaska for a trip some day. (it's been six years since I left to visit relatives in South Carolina, and almost sixteen years for my wife):o
 
Yes, thank you for telling us about your trip.

My observation about France is not intended to take away from your wonderful experience.

But guys, bottom line, France built projects miles from tourist center, black muslims and others live there for generations and do not have the same socio economic opportunities as main stream french citizens, these people riot with the blessing of local church officials, and a french citizen says the US Press is overreacting in it's depliction of that.

OK? What's wrong with this picture? Denial.


munk
 
Actually, the French take the underlying issues of the riots very seriously and have already stated plans to address them. Our over-reaction to the riots themselves i.e. "Paris is Burning" is what they find amusing.

94 cars a day are torched on average in France, so around the time the number got back to 100 a day, they pretty much considered things back to normal.
 
Yeah, I like that. Imagine a future US where instead of a parking citation authorites simply torch your vehicle on the spot, incinerating it into dust.


munk
 
Funny you mention that... The French airport (Charles de Gaulle) has a constant announcement playing that says, "Please keep your belongings with you at all times. Unattended belongings will be destroyed by police." The first time I heard it in 2000 (my second trip - my first I came over from Germany by train while on leave), I thought it was pretty authoritarian. By this trip, I was used to the concept as it's something you see on signs and hear in the U.S. airports sometimes now. In 2000 on my way out, they actually closed down a section of the airport to investigate an unattended bag, which at the time I considered to be stupid and inconvenient since that was where I had to go to exchange money.

I think the car burning thing has to do with the fact that cars are much more of a status symbol in France than here. Everyone doesn't have one. There are people in Paris that are proud of the fact that they've never learned to drive. Their public transportation system is widely used and efficient. It's part of the reason that their ghetto areas ended up in the suburbs as opposed to in the city proper. That, and the 1800 or more euros rent for a very small, one-bedroom, apartment. A manager from Italy told us that one of the people that moved from Paris to an office in another country was amazed as he went from only being able to afford a tiny one-bedroom apartment and no car to having a three-bedroom house and two cars.

Edited to fix my pathetic grammar.
 
DannyinJapan said:
See what I mean about Europeans and Australians and their tendency to tell Americans what Americans are like?
(In their oh-so educated opinions)

My only guess is that so many other countires watch our movies and television and think they know us. they may think that our TV and Movies are accurate depictions of reality, and not the very liberal, a-religious, sex and violence crap that producers use to sell products.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that YOU know how Europeans and Australians are like.
You fail to see the irony in your own post, dont you?

Keno :)
 
I know what you're saying Keno.
This is the ONLY thing I know about Australians and Europeans.
Its the only thing I know from personal experience.
 
..pretty normal stuff for everybody to tell everybodyelse what 'they' are 'like'....
And Americans are going to be a number one topic because they have the 'most' geo political power.


munk
 
Americans are going to be a number one topic because they have the 'most' geo political power.

Americans are going to be the number one target because they are most frequently mentioned in the press.

The recent rioting in France raises a number of concerns:

1) The rapid spread of the riot indicates widespread dissatisfaction with the country's political processes. We have had numerous riots in the US; but, usually, beyond the immediate point of ignition, the protest quickly becomes political and civil, rather then criminal.

2) The slow and dittering response by the authorities reveals a very weak and divided leadership. Chirac in particular was almost negligent in his response.

3) The coordinated effort by the French press to supress the news and images of the event brings into question the independence of the press, and the reality of a free press within France. Where was the media in the days leading up to these incidents; how did they miss the growing level of frustration within these neighborhoods? Clearly, whatever social or economic inbalances exists, are serious enough to have merited a thorough public airing and discussion.

4) Similarly, the use of the term "dissaffected youth", when the terms muslim, or immigrant youth, would have been more accurate, raise the issue of dishonesty. How can you even begin to address the problem if you are unable or unwilling to adequately chracterize and define it?

I was left with the impression that French political system is dying. That the next generation of French leaders, these very youths, has lost such faith in the entire political mechanism that they see criminal action and perhaps civil war as the only effective means to influence public policy. It is not enough to address some of the immediate material needs; the real question is how do you pursuade these people to work within the normal channels for setting public policy.

n2s
 
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