Thoughts on Sirupate vs. AK

J

Jackal_89

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Nov 13, 2015
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Hello! I've been a long time lurker on this page and the forum in general for quite a while now.

I recently ordered a CAK and then emailed back asking if I could switch to a 15" AK instead. Sure enough, I got a speedy response from Yangdu, who was more than accommodating. I'm still waiting for them to get them back in from Nepal, but I know it will be worth the wait! After reading about HI's story, I feel pretty dedicated.

That being said, I am already considering buying another type of Khukuri. I will have the AK, so I thought it would be worth it to look into a Sirupate. I do some light to moderate brush clearing when I'm out setting up ground blinds for hunting, or clearing a shooting lane through thick brush. I know the 15" AK will be good for some fairly heavy chopping, but not so good with the underbrush. I was just wondering if on the days when I'm out for the hunt instead of noisy pre-season setting up and need some quick cutting, would the Sirupate at least handle saplings about 1.5" in diameter (maybe 2")? I ask because I have read that they are more for light brush and fighting, but I've seen people go to town with these blades on a log and it seemed to do fine. Thoughts?
 
The problem with heavy blades is that you generally can't get the speed of the swing up enough for the light work.

Those light twigs, branches, and brush tend to simply move when struck by a slower moving blade.

I love my heavier blades for the more serious chopping work, but the lighter blades excel at cutting tall grass, vines, and light brush.

Besides, do you really need any excuse for another HI Khukri?
 
Trust me, no excuse needed. I plan to buy another; the issue is which one.

Believe me, I know a heavy blade won't work. I bought an Ontario 18" blade machete many years ago and though it has served me well, it can't clear brush at all. That, and the handle is the worst thing I have ever held. I started making knives a little over a year ago, so I'll probably just re-handle it and keep it around. That's why I'm asking about the Sirupate. From what I've read, it will clear brush, but the question of saplings remains. I have no doubts that it couldn't, but how long it will last is in question. I would like to know if using it for brush and saplings (1.5"-2" diameter) for years on end is what it was intended for or not. Perhaps I'm not giving the Sirupate enough credit?
 
I think Ndog probably will weigh in on this soon. To clear light brush, even saplings up to 2", I doubt they would bother the Sirupate, Kobra, or Gelbu models, depending on the height and reach of what you are trying to clear, would determine the length of the blade. I believe Ndog uses a 22", or longer to do clear some of his brush. Just my 2 cents.
 
I've been looking at an 18" Sirupate.

At some point too, I'll have to ask about wood or horn handles, as well as full tang vs. stick tang. I'm getting typical results from lurking; some say yes, and some say no. I'll save that until I'm sure there aren't anymore posts on the forum about that, but it still depends heavily on the quality of work by the maker, so it may be worth a post on the HI section, but I'll try to stay on topic.

I'm not so concerned with a long reach since I'm not out to clear the woods. I prefer to hunt in the thick brush, so I'm really only out to clear firing lanes. I guess my real question is then: at what point is a Sirupate too short for brush?

Thanks for the responses guys!
 
I have a 20" Kobra and it excels on vines and smaller branches/brush. I have heard great things about the Siru, and also the Gelbu Special, though I don't have either. We have this stuff called Mile-a-minute vine up here in New England, and it can grow up to 6" per day. Gets 2+" thick as it climbs pine and oak trees, and the Kobra goes through with no problem. I'll grab a GS in 18" at some point, which is to say 20" is plenty long for me. If I need/want a longer, more fun blade, I break out the Tibetan Short Sword :) that goes through 2-3" hardwoods no problem, probably would do more if I asked it.

Edit after reading your latest post: an 18" Siru would be great. I prefer wood handles, but others like horn. Search for threads on that, there have been a bunch in the last couple months.
 
Jackal_89 said:
I've been looking at an 18" Sirupate.

At some point too, I'll have to ask about wood or horn handles, as well as full tang vs. stick tang. I'm getting typical results from lurking; some say yes, and some say no. I'll save that until I'm sure there aren't anymore posts on the forum about that, but it still depends heavily on the quality of work by the maker, so it may be worth a post on the HI section, but I'll try to stay on topic.

I'm not so concerned with a long reach since I'm not out to clear the woods. I prefer to hunt in the thick brush, so I'm really only out to clear firing lanes. I guess my real question is then: at what point is a Sirupate too short for brush?

Thanks for the responses guys!
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I also think an 18" Siru, Kobra, or Gelbu will handidly do the job you are describing.

There is really no difference between the Chiruwa, or Traditional Handles, they both are quite sturdy. The Chiruwa handle is full tang, but the slabs are natural material and are prone to shrink and expand, and thus, the metal full tang could possibly extend past the slabs, and may need to be filed down. Some also believe (such as myself) that the traditional tangs, help to absorb the shock/vibration from chopping strikes.

I prefer the warmness of wood, as opposed to horn, but then horn feels mighty nice, it is so smooth, and shiny, just like marble. I find wood easier to take care of, if you need to fix horn, it is sometimes hard to get back the shine, unless you have a buffer.

Any of the kamis currently can make an exceptional Siru, Kobra, or Gelbu. If any of the OLD stock come up from the older kamis, they will be highly sought after, and will also be exceptional. The sharks will definitely be circling for position on those offerings.
 
Your 15" AK should work fine for clearing brush. If done carefully
A 15" khukuri is usually light enough that weight isn't a problem.
I've seen a 20" AK used for clearing brush/weeds/grasses and it works just fine with a bit of technique.

As to the wood vs. Horn question? - They are both about the same and react pretty much the same to sanding and filing. It's largely a user preference thing. The horn may be slightly tougher that some of the traditional woods, but it is also a bit more brittle, especially in colder climates.

Stick tang vs. Full tang question? - This is largely a user preference issue also. The full tang will be more neutrally balanced while the stick tang will be more weight forwarded. The full tang will tend to be heavier and more robustly built than the stick tang. Some say the full tang transmits shock to the hand more than the stick tang. As far as toughness, the full tang should arguably win, but in 28 years of doing business there have been very few failures of the stick tang.
 
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Properly sharpened, a 15" AK will roll with a Sirupate all day long, despite the increased weight. The reverse is not true, ie., a Sirupate will not keep pace with an AK for heavier work such as chopping thicker wood(3+ inches).
 
arbiter said:
Properly sharpened, a 15" AK will roll with a Sirupate all day long, despite the increased weight. The reverse is not true, ie., a Sirupate will not keep pace with an AK for heavier work such as chopping thicker wood(3+ inches).
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No doubt, it will. The problem is having to swing fast for an extended period of time. There's a reason machetes come in at the weight that they do - light brush, light fast blade.
 
Dobe_1 said:
No doubt, it will. The problem is having to swing fast for an extended period of time. There's a reason machetes come in at the weight that they do - light brush, light fast blade.
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Agreed Dobe, but that is where technique comes in. Although a thinner blade is generally a faster blade. Quite right.
 
If you do decide to get a Suri, I suggest an 18 inch version. They are built a little lighter than the AK. The extra length affords better leverage. I find 18in Suri's very neutral feeling in the hand. I just received a Purna Suri yesterday. It's wonderfully light yet tough. I wouldn't hesitate to use it in the back yard all day long.
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone! This has been very, very helpful.

I heave read about the felt shock people talk about on a full tang, but I can't say it's a real issue for me. I've just never owned a stick tang anything, so I'm a bit nervous, even though thousands of years of blade making say that it'll be fine.

As for wood and horn, I think I'll stick with wood then. I'll spend more time in the woods in winter. I'm in Ohio, so our winter gets pretty darn cold, but temperatures also fluctuate here A LOT.

I think this pretty much answered all my questions. If anyone has anything to add, I will still be happy for the info. Since I'm still awaiting the new blade (ordered on 11/9). I was told they were waiting on a shipment from Nepal. Still, it will be worth the wait!
 
Jackal_89 said:
I've just never owned a stick tang anything, so I'm a bit nervous, even though thousands of years of blade making say that it'll be fine.
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The "stick tang" you are thinking of, does not apply with HI knives. These traditional tangs are extremely substantial, and they go all the way through the handle, and is peened on the end through the buttcap.

Someone has an x-ray of a bunch of khuks, and it is impressive, and alleviates all concerns about a HI "stick tang".
 
I was talking about how swords were made with stick tangs and their ends peened into the pomel. I did a lot of research to make sure that HI or other makers were not terminating the tang partway through the handle and only sticking on a decorative buttcap. My initial concern was with the sudden taper in the metal, causing a stress point. Much like a full tang that is thinned for the handle. I know I'm stuck in some nonsensical hype. I was worried that the stress would be transferred more-so to the handle and cause cracking. I'm just paranoid like that.
 
Jackal_89 said:
I was talking about how swords were made with stick tangs and their ends peened into the pomel. I did a lot of research to make sure that HI or other makers were not terminating the tang partway through the handle and only sticking on a decorative buttcap. My initial concern was with the sudden taper in the metal, causing a stress point. Much like a full tang that is thinned for the handle. I know I'm stuck in some nonsensical hype. I was worried that the stress would be transferred more-so to the handle and cause cracking. I'm just paranoid like that.
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I believe there have been partial-length tangs made by HI before, but only on specialty models that are not designed for hard use like wood chopping. I seem to recall that there have been Hanshees made with partial-length tangs for balance and weight reasons. The Hanshee however is a fighting kukri through and through, not a wood chopper. And even most HI Hanshees have been full-length stick tangs.
 
Here are some pics (that I've posted before) of a non-chiruwa blade with no handle, showing the tang. The blade portion is 12.5" long and the overall length (from tip to end of tang) is about 19". It's a WWII model blade, made by Sher Kami.

Notice that the inside corners where the tang meets the blade are rounded over so there is no sharp change in direction. Also notice the width and thickness of the tang. There is no reason to worry about the strength of HI non-chiruwa handles.

View attachment 592772 View attachment 592773 View attachment 592774

The models that have partial tangs are mostly the ones with elaborately carved figures on the end of the handles. Even these will probably stand up to use, but they are really works of art. I've included pics of two of those. The first is by Lokendra, the second by Kumar.

View attachment 592768 View attachment 592769
 
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One more quick question and I'll let this thread die. I don't want to crowd the forum with newbie questions. On the subject of a Sirupati, what's the big difference between them and the Kobra or Chitlangi, other than the closed cho? I see the Chitlangi has what looks like a chirra whereas the Kobra does not. Is it all cosmetic or is the difference like the difference between fuller and no fuller? Thanks again guys!
 
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