Thoughts on this bad review

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Nov 30, 2006
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I came across this review of the Green Beret knife on the cutleryscience website. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Bad sample? Old problems fixed? Flawed review?

It seems wierd to me that, even if the whole reviewing process was flawed and everyone else knows that that site is full of it, the Buck 119 didn't break down well before the CPMS30V Green Beret. Just curious to know if anyone has any opinions on this review.

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/green_beret.html
 
That glowing review was written by none other than the backyard, knife breaking hack, Cliff Stamp. I wouldn't trust anything he writes as far as knife reviews go. Just do a search for good ol' Cliffy on BFC and you'll see what I mean.
 
I agree, method of let bend the knife in the vise until it breaks so not testing a knife. Or my favorite is beating the edge on harden steel or concrete until it chips. Any knife will do that. Green Beret is a fine knife. I perfer CR one pieces. But either one would do fine in the woods.
 
the buck is softer steel, so it will normally bend further before failure.

the crk is very tough. keep in mind cliffs tests are aimed at inducing failure often times. the steel, s30v, if properly care for is not too difficult to sharpen. just dont let it get totally dull. after use, touch it up on a sharpmaker or chef's steel.

nothing is indestructable. if you intend to break your knife, or any tool, you will find a way.

normal, even heavy use, will not produce these same results.
 
Unbelievable! That review is like saying the radiator in my car started leaking after only 3 attempts at driving it through a brick wall. It must be a piece of junk!

That review is useless. :rolleyes:
 
You must of read a different review than I did. I thought it was a thorough and balanced review. And to go with your analogy what it said was carA radiator started leaking after three hits to the wall while carB took five and carC Ten.You can abuse and destroy any knife the point is how much abuse will it take before it fails. You also either didn't read or ignored the part about its sharpness and performance doing everyday task such as cutting rope.
 
You must of read a different review than I did. I thought it was a thorough and balanced review. And to go with your analogy what it said was carA radiator started leaking after three hits to the wall while carB took five and carC Ten.You can abuse and destroy any knife the point is how much abuse will it take before it fails. You also either didn't read or ignored the part about its sharpness and performance doing everyday task such as cutting rope.


I read the review, and have read several of Cliffs reviews as well. They all end the same way, abusing the knife to the point of destruction. I don't doubt that he takes care to measure several points of interest,but I still don't think that it is a fair evaluation of the knife. Putting any knife in a vice and bending it back and forth is silly. (so is driving cars a and b into a wall).:D

I'd like to hear from some of the SF guys that actually used this knife on a deployment to Afghanistan or Iraq. I am sure that they "put it through some hard use". Again, I am not knocking Cliff's understanding of physics, (he is obviously a well educated, brilliant man) I just think that most of his reviews are geared towards totally destroying a tool by misusing it. And besides, the thread asked what we thought of the review. My $.02 maybe I am wrong, maybe not.
 
A bad review by Cliff doesn't mean anything regarding the quality of the knife or how it will perform for an end line user for what it was designed to do. I remember before buying my Swamp Rat Howling Rat doing some searching to see what I could learn about it and coming across a review he did on it comparing it to a P ATAK and I believe a Dozier Agent.

I also remembering chuckling to myself out loud when I came across the rock cutting part of the test. Yes you read it right. The rock cutting. 75 hard chops in a rock causing sparks 1 foot long at times. Mabye Busse asks for that I don't know. I'd be a bit upset if that were my knife though. And then it moved on to cutting the door hinges off an SUV. Apparently the Dozier doesn't rate though. It cracked almost immediately on the first whack on the spine with a framing hammer while trying to remove the SUV door hinge. :confused: So, I guess I know now not to buy that one. :barf:

You have to take it for the parts that can be applied to anything you use a knife for and just disregard the other parts sometimes.

Reeve and Stamp had it out a few years back about some other issues regarding the 'proper use of a particular steel' so I wouldn't expect to see any good reviews from Cliff that make CRK's shine any more than I'd expect to see a glowing Strider knife review from him. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! :D

STR
 
You seem to be focusing on the abuse part of the test and ignoring the practical part of the test on sharpness and blade profile.
99.9% of people will never abuse their knives like that but I remember reading on the forum about one member who was stuck upside down in a jeep and had to hack through the metal roof and I think the door with a Swamp Rat Camp Tramp to get out. (tried to find the post but no luck)
I appreciate he does abuse the knives so if I get those knives I will know what level of punishment they will take if I ever have to abuse them in that fashion.
 
I'm sure that Cliff is a knowledgable guy, but I also find his reviews to be a bit much. It is clear that his intentions are to break knives....at least it appears that way to me.

So, I don't know...take Cliff's reviews for what you will. I continue to read his stuff, but I take them with a grain of salt.............

:)
 
Its like I said. You have to take what you can use and let the rest go. Also, its not that I skipped over the practical parts of a review just to see the parts I don't like. My point is that many practical parts of testing are no longer possible once you break the knife and ruin it. This may not necessarily be the case in this test but in many others the knives have been broken too soon during testing in my opinion.

Now this isn't saying that breaking a knife is all bad. I know that some makers want to have their knives torn up and broke and its just fine when they request it, but I think that should be one of the first things mentioned in the review if thats the case. Otherwise my point is that most of us can do that ourselves and don't need a third party to test our knives to failure or to the breaking point, especially in doing things that knives are generally not used for anyway. However, if during the testing the knife breaks doing something it was designed to do then of course thats another story.

I think when someone other than the maker breaks knives and repeatedly with numerous brands at random, often times buying them on their own just to break it that it comes off, at least to me as nothing more than a guy that just likes breaking knives. But when you put that together with then writing reviews that tend to be slanted toward negative comments about that knife and/or the maker due to a failure Cliff caused himself and then blaming it on a faulty knife or a maker that doesn't use good steel, or did a faulty heat treat and on and on it adds up to one thing, a man with a bias. In other words Cliff is somewhat predictable and sets out to do just what happens in his tests, ie, break knives. Its not that I don't appreciate knowing what my knives can or can't do when I make one. I do. Its not that I don't appreciate knowing what a knife I plan to buy can or cannot do. I appreciate that also.

The abuse part of the test in my mind is not really all that relevant. I mean just because that one Howling Rat managed to nearly cut off both hinges before breaking from the abuse doesn't mean that another would even make it through one hinge at all or that another one wouldn't snap and crack like the Agent did in that same review I mentioned. You would have to repeat that many times to see that and even then you still can't predict if the one you carry will be capable of doing that or not should the one in a billion chance come up in your lifetime that you needed to know such a thing.

I can find out most of what I need to know about a knife I like from reading feedback on any forum about one, or by simply asking the maker or manufacturer at a show and get quite a bit of information that way. Cliff makes it very well known that he cannot and does not trust a salesman so he can't ask Sal or Jerry Busse, Chris Reeve, Bob Dozier, myself or anyone else anything because he doesn't believe them, and more than this he makes it quite clear that he thinks he knows more than they do anyway because as everyone knows around here Cliff is never wrong. Knowing this helps you to understand why he does what he does. It really doesn't give the tests any more credit just because Cliff has a distrust of makers and manufacturers that happen to sell knives.

STR
 
I have not even read the reviews, but, wouldnt this be something like crash tests for a car?
 
That glowing review was written by none other than the backyard, knife breaking hack, Cliff Stamp. I wouldn't trust anything he writes as far as knife reviews go. Just do a search for good ol' Cliffy on BFC and you'll see what I mean.

Plus One to that, Cliff has a very strong bias that prevades his "scientific" reviews. This years punching bag seems to be Kershaw and our own Thomas W, their rep on these boards.
 
If you tested several samples of the same knife.

Yeah.

I aslo do not think that everyone cares about crash tests. I drive a mach 1 and could really give a crap less how it holds up in a crash. It is fast and handles well....does what I want.

But people that buy volvos and subarus might.

Probably a bad analogie.
 
I paid attention to his comments about the knife's out-of-the-box appearance and sharpness. I had my knew 5.5 Green Beret in my hand while I read the post. No glue shows under my grips. My grips are tight to the tang. And my knife shaved right out of the box (though I couldn't resist getting it a bit sharper on my Sharpmaker). That's why I thought perhaps he received a bad sample.

Still though, it seems to me that the S30V should've held its edge appreciably longer than the 420HC (even with one sample). Then again, none of my knives ever really see "hard" use. I just like to think they could handle it. :o
 
Cliff and his groupies can claim all they like that he tests knives dispassionately, but his bias against certain makers is as clear as his bias in favor of others. It is all too easy to put a little more pressure on the knife you want to fail first ...

I gave up a long time ago trying to get a straight answer out of him. If he wants to slant his results, he will not admit it, that's for sure. So I put him on Ignore.

What was that about CRK One-piece handle knurling being uncomfortable? :p
 
I like it myself. My understandfing is, Cliff felt otherwise -- before he even held one.
 
All I know is that I want car "C"! 10 times through a wall, that's amazing! Car "C" must have INFI bumpers or something!
 
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