Thoughts on Tuff

[Brummie]

So, a couple of months ago, I posted a thread asking if someone could convince me to get a Tuff - my main concern being the rather limited 3" edge length in a knife of that size.

I did end up buying one - couldn't resist when I found it for a really killer price - and I like the knife. It is really well built, extremely solid. The handle shape is very ergonomic and versatile, and I like the angled blade. BUT, I do still think the edge length is too short, and the oversized choil is actually quite uncomfortable for my (admittedly pretty skinny) fingers.

So here is a quick sketch I drew of how I would re-design the pivot and choil area to be more like the Manix XL. I'm pretty sure you could fit in another 0.5" of edge in a slightly more compact package, whilst making the choil more comfortable (at least for me). I've put a clip point on the blade, as I actually find this a very practical shape for a large folding knife.

ANy thoughts? Genius or demented?

 

[Jastab]

Interesting, Ed Schempp designs some interesting designs, but they are that way for a reason. I like the thought of the re designed pivot area. I thi k if the blade was how you want it, it would sacrifice tip strength and could no longer be called a Tuff. I could be dead wrong on that tho. It just boils down to ed's design vs. Eric's design, two different styles of thinking and making.

 

[Brock O Lee]

I hear you Brummie, the choil is very big and the edge could probably be slightly longer...

My typical usage scenario for the Tuff is to carry it instead of a small fixed blade outdoors, and in that role I would always pair it with another lighter duty Spyderco like a Manix or PM2. The grind on the Tuff is too thick for me to use as a primary EDC anyway.

As a heavy duty support knife for my primary EDC, I can live with its shortcomings.

 

[Brummie]

Given the 3V steel and the fact it is folder, I think you could thin out the grind on the Tuff (including the tip) without sacrificing any of the functional strength of the knife. It doesn't make sense to me if one component is at a much higher spec than others - like putting a really thick-ground blade on a folder.

 

[Dingle1911]

I like your version too Brummie, I also agree that a thin 3V blade would be warranted. I would like to own both.

 

[stabman]

It doesn't make sense to me if one component is at a much higher spec than others - like putting a really thick-ground blade on a folder.

The thick ground blade with stout point combined with the oversized pivot allows for reasonable amounts of prying, such as is sometimes done in certain "woodsy" tasks.
The lock is not a limiting factor here given what the blade was designed to do.

If you want a "slicier" blade, Spyderco has tons of those. :thumbup:

 

[Surfingringo]

I am fine with the choil. The thing that has kept me off the knife until now is the fat tip. I am considering buying one and grinding the spine flat from spyderhole to tip. Something more like a pm2 blade. I have looked at pics and covered that area of the spine with a strait-edge and it looks pretty good to me. Hmmm...maybe one of you photoshop gurus can make a mock up. Would be an interesting pic to look at.

 

[ShepardCC]

I think everything about the tuff, other than the scale and back spacer...but that I've already taken care of , is awesome. It's an amazing knife overbuilt for strength and heavy use. Why or why would you want to thin the blade on it?? If you have to have a thinner blade there are dozens upon dozen of thinner blades offered by Spyderco. That's why we all love spyderco. They have the largest variety of purpose driven knife designs by dozens of different designers incorporating a multitude of ideas, concepts, and expertise.
There will never, I repeat NEVER be a perfect anything in our vast society of opinions, options and scenarios.
There isn't one ultimate perfect luxury car. You have Bmw, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, etc. There isn't the ultimate luxury watch. You have Rolex, Tag Heuer, Panerai, Mont Blanc, Omega, etc.

Because once you start nitpicking this knives blade thickness the next complaint will be the weight of it. And then something else.
If you want a thin strong knife try the PM2, Junior, Domino, Endura, Delica, Manix, Manix XL, PPT, Gayle Bradley, etc. Those all have ffg and thinner bladed with reduced weight and excellent steels.

I thoroughly enjoy the Tuff for its purpose built design and I'll still use it for things it's not the best of the best at...like cutting my food at a restaurant

 

[fetzer85]

The Tuff is a monster however for me the handle to blade ratio is just too great. I'd say I have average hands and the handle was plenty big for me without the finger choil on the blade. I probably would've kept it if it had another half inch of cutting edge (ie. no finger choil on blade) but it was obviously designed for a reason so I'll just not be a fan of it and carry on with the dozens of other Spydercos that I enjoy.

 

[Fancier]

If you put 3V into a Para 2 I'd have a hard time resisting it. Would that satisfy the itch for a thinner blade?

 

[rwdata]

I was one of the people trying to educate you in the advantages of the knife when you posted your original post. I have changed my opinion somewhat but still think it to be one of the toughest folders available.
I tried using it as an everyday knife indoors. I used it in food preparation and as an eating utensil and any other use indoors. My complaints are few. The blade is too short for the handle size and the blade groove was annoying. Whenever I used the knife for food prep or cutting I found the blade too short for even basic cutting. I know it's not a kitchen knife so I am only talking about smaller items to be cut. The other issue was the groove in the blade would collect anything I was cutting or spreading. As such, it is not a good knife for the purpose of an indoor EDC in my lowly opinion.
I ended up giving the knife away and it has been replaced by the spyderco k2. I believe the tuff to be exactly that, very tough! But more suited to outdoor and shop use than indoors.

 

[Surfingringo]

Why or why would you want to thin the blade on it??

Im surprised that someone who modifies pretty much every knife they touch is taking the stance that we should accept a knife as it comes in its stock form or not buy it.

 

[ShepardCC]

Im surprised that someone who modifies pretty much every knife they touch is taking the stance that we should accept a knife as it comes in its stock form or not buy it.

I didn't say leave it stock by all means change the scales and make it yours.
I just wouldn't change the blade to make it thinner. It's a tank made to be a fighting knife/folding fixed blade. No need to add a choil, it has one.
BTW love all your fishing pics

 

[3rdGenRigger]

Some Eric-crafted eye candy. There's nothing else I'd change about this thing.

 

[Surfingringo]

I didn't say leave it stock by all means change the scales and make it yours.
I just wouldn't change the blade to make it thinner. It's a tank made to be a fighting knife/folding fixed blade. No need to add a choil, it has one.
BTW love all your fishing pics

If by "thinner" you mean to regrind it thinning out the stock then I would agree with you. That would kind of be defeating the purpose of the knife. I was just talking about taking the spine down a bit. You would still have a Tuff in all its glory; just with a bit pointier tip., which I usually find more useful. I dunno, just a thought.

Glad u enjoy the pics. I try not to overdo it and I try to keep them knife related but I do enjoy making them.

 

[ShepardCC]

If by "thinner" you mean to regrind it thinning out the stock then I would agree with you. That would kind of be defeating the purpose of the knife. I was just talking about taking the spine down a bit. You would still have a Tuff in all its glory; just with a bit pointier tip., which I usually find more useful. I dunno, just a thought.

Glad u enjoy the pics. I try not to overdo it and I try to keep them knife related but I do enjoy making them.

My understanding was he wanted to thin the stock of the blade. To me that's a no no. If you want to modify it's shape a bit.like the thread starter said with his pics ya that would be cool. But someone else said later they would want a thinner blade profile. I was responding to that saying not to thin the blade. That's why I said all those other blades to get if you wanted a thinner blade stock. So yeah you and me are in agreement

Yeah I think you take awesome pics that are entertaining and to the point. Makes me want to go fishing

 

[Brummie]

Guys - Just to be clear, I was not asking for another thin-bladed slicer. I know Spyderco already makes a lot of those because I own a lot of them, and I find most spydercos a tiny bit too thin in the tip.

The point I was making is that the amount of 3V behind the tip on the Tuff can take a HUGE amount of abuse - more than I think a folder would ever be put through. For instance, 1mm behind the tip on the Tuff, there is probably at least 4x as much material as 1mm behind the tip on my Koster Bushmaster (also in 3V), and I would consider that to be perfectly strong enough for a woodsy fixed blade. So I think you could get away with a more pointy tip on the Tuff without having to worry about failure.

I would prefer the edge convexed to thin it slightly, but I can do that myself. Come to think of it, I could also grind the clip point into it myself. The choil I can't fix. Anyway, as stated, I do like the knife, but a few tweaks would make it much better for me. I'm still looking for the perfect spyderco general use large folder. The K2 is fantastic, but a bit specialized.

 

[ShepardCC]

^^I actually like the blade shape you created. I have a tuff blade that I want to do something too and I may shape it like that. Then give it the Fallout treatment but leave the blood groove clean and fresh looking.

 

[Surfingringo]

Guys - Just to be clear, I was not asking for another thin-bladed slicer. I know Spyderco already makes a lot of those because I own a lot of them, and I find most spydercos a tiny bit too thin in the tip.

The point I was making is that the amount of 3V behind the tip on the Tuff can take a HUGE amount of abuse - more than I think a folder would ever be put through. For instance, 1mm behind the tip on the Tuff, there is probably at least 4x as much material as 1mm behind the tip on my Koster Bushmaster (also in 3V), and I would consider that to be perfectly strong enough for a woodsy fixed blade. So I think you could get away with a more pointy tip on the Tuff without having to worry about failure.

I would prefer the edge convexed to thin it slightly, but I can do that myself. Come to think of it, I could also grind the clip point into it myself. The choil I can't fix. Anyway, as stated, I do like the knife, but a few tweaks would make it much better for me. I'm still looking for the perfect spyderco general use large folder. The K2 is fantastic, but a bit specialized.

I'm not a big fan of the functionality of clip points, but to each his own. Print out some pic of the tuff and play around with some different outlines on the spine. I looked at it as a flat spine (a la paramilitary) and also with the same general shape but significantly flattening out the curve of the spine. Both looked very nice and would give it a good bit more pointy tip. I don't have a printer so if you do any mock ups please post pics as I would love to see them.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I love my TUFF. This is my second; the first one was really "tuff" to open, whereas this one is actually a one-handed knife. I do remember that Ed Schempp purposely designed this as a "Fixed blade that could be folded" and one-handed operation was generally not expected. Nevertheless, mine is a NIB one-handed beauty, and I love it. I don't think the blade is thick at all at 0.155"...at least, not when next to my SMF which is 0.190", or the Sng's which are 0.165". My Zaan and the CRK 25's are 0.140" and that's not bad at all.
Where else can you find a work-horse like that TUFF that is only 0.470" thick in the grips? That is outstanding design, in my book.
The thickness just behind the blade-edge on mine ranges from <0.030" near the choil to approx 0.045" near the tip, but the factory-edge will still push-cut 0.002" -thick Yellow Pages pretty nicely.
Speaking of choils, the Tuff has excellent grippy jimping on both top and bottom of the blade. In addition, just forward of the choil, there is this great "guard" to prevent your blade's stabbing motion from going all the way onto your fore-finger or the choil. Now there is a lesson that I really wish that TAD would take to heart. Big-Time.
Yeah, I love this thing. I will likely never carry it unless the vampires become active, but that's okay also. It's a great example of genius thought being extended into folder design.