Thread locked bc some disagreed with OP?

[MaxFactor]

Not sure if this is the right place but this thread was locked earlier, apparently at the OPs request.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1462315-Zt-gtc-hell-yes

I was doing my best to keep things civil while fielding some recent opinions that I felt were perfectly valid.

Is absolute praise the only acceptable response to a new knife announcement? I thought this was a forum was a place to discuss things. Both in agreement and disagreement.

Also, not trying to anger any mods or users but I just want to be clear about where discussions can or cannot go.

Again, apologies if this isn't the right area for this question but General Discussion didn't seem like the proper place.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Gold members can close their own threads. Registered users can ask that their threads be closed. If the thread has covered the topic, a moderator can honor the request to close it.

 

[knarfeng]

The OP asked for the thread to be closed.

Start another thread on the topic if you want to.

 

[MaxFactor]

Roger that.

I understand that ZT, and other certain brands, seem to be particularly polarizing sometimes.

Appreciate the fast responses guys, and thank you for moderating this fine forum.

 

[craytab]

ZT threads can be contentious, especially when started by those who have an agenda rather than simply asking a question or wanting to discuss a topic. Just like the thread you are talking about we saw the same thing with another zt thread a couple weeks ago but on the opposite side of the coin. The OP was not hearing what he wanted so he took his ball and went home. What really is a shame is when these folks write a diatribe about how the forum is run before needing to ask a mod to close the thread for them. Okay, maybe not a shame, more ironic.

I think the topic is a welcome one and I'd like to see it discussed by those who can handle it with maturity. Sadly, a similar thread would get a similar reaction particularly from the two individuals I'm thinking of but they would not be able to have it closed, so the rest of us could just ignore them and enjoy the discussion :thumbup:

 

[PURPLEDC]

ZT threads can be contentious, especially when started by those who have an agenda rather than simply asking a question or wanting to discuss a topic. Just like the thread you are talking about we saw the same thing with another zt thread a couple weeks ago but on the opposite side of the coin. The OP was not hearing what he wanted so he took his ball and went home. What really is a shame is when these folks write a diatribe about how the forum is run before needing to ask a mod to close the thread for them. Okay, maybe not a shame, more ironic.

I think the topic is a welcome one and I'd like to see it discussed by those who can handle it with maturity. Sadly, a similar thread would get a similar reaction particularly from the two individuals I'm thinking of but they would not be able to have it closed, so the rest of us could just ignore them and enjoy the discussion :thumbup:

That is the only thing i dont like. It seems some ask to have a thread closed only so they can have the last word. I was under the impression that people who start threads dont own them and they become the communities property. But its no big deal as at best I only need to wait a couple days before we have the same discussion.

 

[KELAMA]

I understand that ZT, and other certain brands, seem to be particularly polarizing sometimes.

^ I feel that Scurvy was spot on, exercised good judgment & made the right call: v

"They left the forum because of a few trolls who were not policed in any way shape or form.

This emboldened them to come in and thread crap in every single ZT thread. Literally got to the second reply before someone came in talking trash about ZT instead of the knife that was trying to be discussed. No other major manufacturer of knives gets openly disrespected the way KAI does."

^ I don't blame them for leaving either.

 

[craytab]

^ I feel that Scurvy was spot on, exercised good judgment & made the right call: v

"They left the forum because of a few trolls who were not policed in any way shape or form.

This emboldened them to come in and thread crap in every single ZT thread. Literally got to the second reply before someone came in talking trash about ZT instead of the knife that was trying to be discussed. No other major manufacturer of knives gets openly disrespected the way KAI does."

^ I don't blame them for leaving either.

What he forgot to include is that in the ZT subforum it was ZT that was not policing the trolls correctly. Other major manufacturer subforums don't have that problem. Either that or he is saying the mods now in general aren't doing their job. He is not correct or deliberately leaving out information to prove his point and it came across as misguided or hating on the current mods. Not good at all. Having such in accurate interpretations of the situation is as much a part of the problem as the trolls he rallies against...

 

[rycen]

You guys have it too good here. I asked for a sales thread on another forum I belong to,to be closed. Not only was it not closed but I received a warning for abusing the reporting system.

In case anyone else is wondering if you have a paid membership Gold or above you can lock your own threads.

 

[craytab]

You guys have it too good here. I asked for a sales thread on another forum I belong to,to be closed. Not only was it not closed but I received a warning for abusing the reporting system.

In case anyone else is wondering if you have a paid membership Gold or above you can lock your own threads.

Dang. That is tough!

 

[Planterz]

EDIT: Responded to the wrong person because he doesn't know how to quote the person he wants to quote and I thought it was him and not the other person.

 

[mqqn]

What he forgot to include is that in the ZT subforum it was ZT that was not policing the trolls correctly. Other major manufacturer subforums don't have that problem. Either that or he is saying the mods now in general aren't doing their job. He is not correct or deliberately leaving out information to prove his point and it came across as misguided or hating on the current mods. Not good at all. Having such in accurate interpretations of the situation is as much a part of the problem as the trolls he rallies against...

The thread in question was started to show the release of a new collaboration with GTC knives, and then in the third post and several others it became the same old "ZT has lost it's way"..."ZT needs to go back to it's roots".

The thread went decidedly off topic, as do most threads where someone posts a ZT knife for discussion of any kind.

I think we all get it - some people are not going to like ANY new ZT. Some people think ZT knives are just "safe queen pocket jewelry", and that is great. Have an opinion. It is not, however, your duty to report your distaste for ZT in every thread that pops up showing a ZT knife.

The primary difference I see is that the ZT fans don't crap up other people's threads where someone posts a knife or discusses a company they like, even if the ZT fans don't care for a particular knife or brand.

The ZT fans that have left BF because of this behavior were mostly all gold members, paying members that helped support the forum at one time.

Ask Spark if paying members are as valuable as those people who support the forum "with their time and minds...... "

best

mqqn

 

[craytab]

The thread in question was started to show the release of a new collaboration with GTC knives, and then in the third post and several others it became the same old "ZT has lost it's way"..."ZT needs to go back to it's roots".

The thread went decidedly off topic, as do most threads where someone posts a ZT knife for discussion of any kind.

I think we all get it - some people are not going to like ANY new ZT. Some people think ZT knives are just "safe queen pocket jewelry", and that is great. Have an opinion. It is not, however, your duty to report your distaste for ZT in every thread that pops up showing a ZT knife.

The primary difference I see is that the ZT fans don't crap up other people's threads where someone posts a knife or discusses a company they like, even if the ZT fans don't care for a particular knife or brand.

The ZT fans that have left BF because of this behavior were mostly all gold members, paying members that helped support the forum at one time.

Ask Spark if paying members are as valuable as those people who support the forum "with their time and minds...... "

best

mqqn

You can ignore those who say idiotic things, yes? Things are said negatively about many brands. The Poster in question cannot discuss ZT or KAI in any thread without letting his inner fanboy guide his thoughts. He has no mature discourse on the subject. He will reap what he has sown. Rather than ignore it and discuss the topic with the rest of us like a mature adult he posted what Kelama has so vehemently agreed with above. He ignores real issues. Throws it on the mods who are still here. Takes his ball, and goes home. He is the other side of the coin from Bowdog. Folks like them are the problem. They can't discuss things without their bias.

Lots and lots of ZT fans don't act as scurvy and lots and lots of non-ZT fans don't act as bowdog. I'm in the middle. I own ZT and love many of their knives. I do see room for improvement if they want more of my money. I can say that not in a rude way. Others can't. So what. Ignore them.

If spark wants the mods to crack down on what you are seeing I think that would be happening or will happen in the future.

No reason to accept either fanboys or haters crapping on the mods like they both have done related to the ZT issue. That is just garbage.

 

[MaxFactor]

Well it definitely seems like I struck a nerve. My intention was certainly not to have us at each other's throats, or have us calling out other users like some sort of witch hunt.

Clearly there is a fine line between staying on-topic and being entirely off-topic. Much like genuine criticism can be mistaken for trolling.

However, in the case of the ZT/GTC collab "announcement" thread, what would remaining absolutely on-topic entail? Every just saying, "wow, cool knife. I want one"? That's not much of a discussion, is it? Maybe General Discussion shouldn't be the place for new knife announcements then.

Granted, it's up to the zealots to maintain a little humility and not descend into a defensive posture. But we all clearly need to act a bit more humble, and remember that all of us BladeForums members are part of a community with a (mostly) shared interest.

 

[mqqn]

Well it definitely seems like I struck a nerve. My intention was certainly not to have us at each other's throats, or have us calling out other users like some sort of witch hunt.

Clearly there is a fine line between staying on-topic and being entirely off-topic. Much like genuine criticism can be mistaken for trolling.

However, in the case of the ZT/GTC collab "announcement" thread, what would remaining absolutely on-topic entail? Every just saying, "wow, cool knife. I want one"? That's not much of a discussion, is it? Maybe General Discussion shouldn't be the place for new knife announcements then.

Granted, it's up to the zealots to maintain a little humility and not descend into a defensive posture. But we all clearly need to act a bit more humble, and remember that all of us BladeForums members are part of a community with a (mostly) shared interest.

Now you are jumping to absurd absolutes.

No, it is not about everyone dancing with lillipops and rainbows and expounding how they love the knife, and nobody can have a differing view.

Take an open minded look at the thread.

OP :
"Here is a GLIMPSE at a new knife that WILL BE ANNOUNCED by brand A at SHOT next week. I don't have any pictures other than this blurb from an online blogger."

A couple of replys - That is interesting - a new collaboration with GTC - interested in seeing the knife.

Then:

"ZT has really lost it's way. They need to go back to hard use knives."

"Wow - another pocket jewelry."

An on and on, all over one picture of a knife that nobody has had in their hands yet.

How about: I don't like GTC, and I probably would not be interested in one.

And once again, I don't think it was all about you, and you were being polite; off topic but polite. I personally would not have closed the thread, instead I would have asked to keep on topic and asked you what you thought about the KNIFE.

That is all.

best

mqqn

 

[Insipid Moniker]

As I said in that thread, whatever their reason KAI leaving left a lot of strong feelings on many sides, as did some of the personalities on both sides.

On the other hand, I think the GTC collab is one of the coolest they've ever done. Still not enough of my thing to make me reach for my wallet, but cool nonetheless.

 

[craytab]

I just went and reread the thread. There were really only a couple nasty comments and there were really only a few people replying to those nasty comments. That can happen in almost any thread.

I do not think what maxfactor said was off topic. He did not just say "ZT has really lost it's way. They need to go back to hard use knives". That was in a longer discourse he was trying to have. Pulling that one comment is jumping to an absurd absolute.

At the end of the day, a diehard fan of ZT did not like the way his thread was going. He then threw the forum and its moderators under the buss. After that he asked those same mods to close his thread. He whined, took is ball, and went home. He didn't want a discussion.

If you want to be a fanboy you are going to have to ignore some haters once in a while. Same with being a hater. If the comments are insults report them. Mature adults can discuss these topics without mod intervention.

 

[mqqn]

...<snip>
I do not think what maxfactor said was off topic. He did not just say "ZT has really lost it's way. They need to go back to hard use knives". That was in a longer discourse he was trying to have. Pulling that one comment is jumping to an absurd absolute. ...<snip>

I pulled out one comment? -

First post

I'm not a huge fan of the grind but I've always loved G. Cecchini's work. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

That being said, this is definitely going to piss off all the ZT fans that have been begging for a good old non-bearing beater ZT. And to be honest, I agree with them. I'd love to see something similar to a Les George VECP but with G10 and maybe a liner lock. Non-flipper, on washers, grippy G10, with quality steel.

Exactly how many bearings does the new GTC have based on the information in the linked blog?

Post two -

True, but those are only two knives in a sea of what a lot people are calling "toy knives" (I don't necessarily agree with that moniker), and neither of those fulfills a liner lock, washer, non-flipper. Not to mention that the 0630 remains the only ZT on washers. With the countless bearing flippers that ZT puts out one would think that they'd stick to their roots and put out some classic ZT hard-use knives. Hopefully there will be some released at Show Show this week.

And don't get me wrong, I absolutely love flippers that ride on bearings, just playing Devil's advocate here.

I would also ask how anyone knows if this GTC collab is a bearing flipper or not? I don't see bearings or any mention of bearings in the blog, nor do I see a flipper tab.

Post three

While his delivery left a bit to be desired, this is a legitimate opinion held by many people who were long time ZT fans. ZT has done nothing but alienate these people in the past few years. And this is exactly what I was trying to convey in my earlier comments in this thread. I don't think anyone can deny that ZT has shied away from their original heavy-duty use and overbuilt designs and moved to more light-duty, "EDC-friendly" flippers.

ZT's website even says:

"HARD-USE PREMIUM AND PROFESSIONAL KNIVES
Designed and manufactured to stand up to heavy-duty use, Zero Tolerance Knives are built of premium materials. The knives have earned a reputation among their devoted fans as being a "real beast" or even being—proudly—'overbuilt'."

I also just want to reiterate, I'm a huge fan of bearing flippers but I firmly believe that ZT needs to get back to their roots and balance their myriad of bearing flippers with some non-flipper, washer knives.

Lastly, apologies for throwing this thread off-topic, but this announcement is bound to attract some controversial opinions.
Last edited by MaxFactor; 01-14-2017 at 02:46 PM.

Where is the GTC collaboration discussion? Max even apologizes for going off topic, and again, he was being very polite as I have repeatedly indicated.

Again, as I have also repeatedly said, I don't think it was Max that caused Scurvy to "take his ball and go home"; in my opinion it was that people were already making comments that the knife would not be usable without ever even having tried to use one, and then the past history of ZT threads in general.

Scurvy is a friend of mine, and I would have asked him not to close the thread if he had asked, but he did not and it is closed.

If someone wants to discuss the GTC collaboration here, I am sure someone else will have to start the thread, as will any other of the many new knives that are going to be announced at Shot tomorrow.

best

mqqn

 

[MaxFactor]

Guess I should have closed this thread before I started getting quoted...

mqqn is dead right that I was speculating.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to other new releases from ZT this week. What I've seen so far looks promising.

 

[mqqn]

Guess I should have closed this thread before I started getting quoted...

mqqn is dead right that I was speculating.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to other new releases from ZT this week. What I've seen so far looks promising.

No worries - I was copying your posts from the closed thread anyway, which is now is locked and memorialized in perpetuity.

Maybe start a thread about ZT and what you think they should do to make themselves a viable company going forward.

I personally think they own the PINS of USA made, mid to higher end folders, and it is not because they have rested on their laurels and stayed true to their "roots", although there are myriad hard use folders available in the current lineup for those, dare I say it, bold enough to try them.

best

mqqn