Three questions about knives, about quality, blade measurement and sharpening.

[XOIIO]

Hey everyone I have a couple questions about knives that I have always wondered, first is regarding the quality of steel, I bought a Smith & Wesson border guard 2 (tanto point, semi serrated because I could not find the non serrated option) and it apparently uses either 4034 stainless steel or 7Cr17 high carbon stainless steel (or is that the same thing?)

I'm wondering how that is in terms of quality. I don't need a knife for hunting or anything and I don't use it a huge amount but it seems to keep a really nice edge for a long time.

My second question is regarding blade length measurement, where exactly does the measurement start? Is it just where the handle ends and turns into the main bit of steel, or perhaps where the actual sharpened bit is? Aside from the smith & Wesson I bought a gimmicky 440 stainless (I know that stuff is cheap) dagger since someone was selling it cheap, it looks nice sitting around at least but there is a good inch to inch and a half before the blade starts to have an edge.

My last question is, how can I get blades to be the sharpest possible? I used to use a sharpening stone, however I didn't watch to scratch the blade on the smith & Wesson and lost my sharpening stone anyways so I use one of those double sided ceramic and whatnot sharpeners which is alright. Thing is I often see videos where people demonstrate being able to just slice through a piece of paper holding one corner or being able to shave with them, I'm wondering if you need a grinding wheel for that kind of sharpness. This is the kind of edge I'm talking about, I've seen better ones (on some super expensive kitchen knives). I can never get mine quite that sharp using a sharpening stone or the two sided thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dELoxjH_ofc


I'd also be interested in suggestions for a similarly styled knife to the smith & Wesson that would be higher quality. I love the look of a tanto blade and a nice black coating.

Hopefully I'm not asking too much in my first post here lol

 

[RevDevil]

Just my thoughts:
7Cr17 high carbon stainless steel, the bold part is marketing terminology, as well as a description of the steel. Basically it's a low grade Chinese alloy (440A equivalent). Not a bad steel for light and sparingly used knives.

The measurement of a blade varies as much as the person doing the measurement. They may be referring to where the pivot hole is on the folder to the tip of the knife, or the cutting edge to tip, where the handle ends and the blade begins to the tip, etc. There is no universal measuring standard that I've ever seen.

As for sharpening, you can get a knife sharp but there are some things to take into consideration. The overall edge geometry (as much as some people don't think this matters, it does) is important. A very obtuse edge will not slice as well as a thin cutting edge. A thicker cutting edge will certainly in many cases last longer than a thin edge. It's give and take. The blade thickness is also important, a super thick blade won't do as well as a thin blade (depending on many factors of course). You can get a knife pretty sharp using a Sharpmaker from Spyderco.

As for a knife suggestion, Kershaw Blur, ZT 0700 you can also try searching the forums for "Tanto Folders" or similar.

 

[erhodes]

To be honest smith and Wesson doesn't make a great knife. Great firearms but not the best in knife steel or heat treat. That said if you don't use a knife often or abuse them it should hold up. That steel isn't great but there are good manufactureres who use similar steels. If you really want to get your knife paper shaving sharp as you have seen you can do so with a flat stone as long as you know what you are doing. it is all about holding the same angle every time you run the knife along the stone. I have seen several "old timers" who can make a blade hair shaving sharp using this method. I have never been able to accomplish it using a flat stone but I use a lansky sharpening system and can literally shave my face with my knives after I sharpen them on it. You can pick one up on amazon for around $30-$40. Not sure if you want to spend that much on one, but it will last you a life time and is easy to get the hang of.

Hope this helps a little and I know others with more experience and knowledge will chime in soon

Oh, and usually the blade length is measured from the end of the handle to the tip, meaning all the exposed steel.

 

[chiral.grolim]

1) 4034 stainless steel is X46Cr13, made with ~0.46% Carbon, ~13% Chromium - just enough chromium with little enough carbon to lend corrosion resistance, just enough carbon to allow it to be hardened ~56 Rc, not very high and not very wear resistant. It is very inexpensive. With so little carbon, it doesn't even quite compare with 440A, it's closer to 420J2. If it seems to keep a nice edge for a long time, that's because it was sharpened well at the factory and you haven't put it to much use. When you do, it will dull quickly but can be resharpened quickly as well. This steel is generally reserved for liners or structural components, only used for blades in "fantasy" knives or those not really intended for use. If you don't use knives much and like the way it looks :thumbup: I just hope you didn't spend much $$ on it.

By the way, S&W doesn't "make" knives. Taylor Brands contracts construction of these knives wherever is cheapest (currently China) and slaps the S&W label on to market them.

2) Most LEO's I've encountered measure the "blade-length" as the portion extending above the handle/guard area, which includes the ricasso & choil all the way to the tip, not just the sharp areas.

3) For such a cheap knife, I wouldn't spend much a sharpening equipment. The "V" sharpeners are cheap and sufficient to produce a "working edge" for knives not often used. For better sharpening, an aligner system or decent flat hone or crock-stix or mousepad+sandpaper will help you achieve the results you desire. Make sure that you have a fairly coarse stone to help you get a feel for how much metal can & should be removed from a dull edge, and a fine hone to help you polish away the scratch-pattern. Learning to sharpen properly can be an engrossing endeavor and a skill you may benefit from your entire life. This carp S&W knife is perfect to practice on :thumbup:

4) Just about EVERY knife-maker offers tanto & black folders - Gerber, Cold Steel, Buck, Kershaw, Benchmade, CRKT, Kabar, Fox ... the list goes on & on. Quality of each's offerings resides in both the materials used and design execution, and price often reflects that quality. Do you have a price preference? Lock preference? Anything besides black and tanto?

 

[XOIIO]

1)

4) Just about EVERY knife-maker offers tanto & black folders - Gerber, Cold Steel, Buck, Kershaw, Benchmade, CRKT, Kabar, Fox ... the list goes on & on. Quality of each's offerings resides in both the materials used and design execution, and price often reflects that quality. Do you have a price preference? Lock preference? Anything besides black and tanto?

I do quite like the look of the smith & Wesson branded one, I'm not a huge fan of the rounded handles, I like the heavy duty/more industrial (if that's the right term for it) look to it. I've seen some knives that have milled aluminum handles but with a fair bit of space so that you can see the blade folded into the handle, that's a nice look as well. I'll have to search these forums for tanto folders when I have time.

 

[Sonnydaze]

If you're concerned about "legal" definitions used by a cop who asks to see your knife...then I would suggest using "tip to grip."
Lots of manufacturers, however, give the length of the sharpened edge, which is good information, but doesn't do us much good when our state has a 3" blade limitation...and we're trying to buy a knife over the Web.
Most cops don't know the blade-length law and don't really care. It's just when you get into trouble and they stop you and start asking questions, that they might look more closely at things you might be doing wrong.