Through hardened - different from differential heat treat?

SpyderPhreak

SpyderPhreak

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I'm fairly new to the Busse/Swamp Rat/Scrap Yard knives. I dig them though, and have already bought two Rats (Battle Guard and EH3). They look like they're the knives to beat for hard use (I was previously looking at Chris Reeve fixed blades made from A2).

There is one thing I'm unclear on. I thought all three brands had the differential heat treatment on the edge versus the rest of the blade.

However, I'm seeing some of these knifes say they're "through hardened" (like the current mini Mojo line in the SR shop). Are these blades still differentially heat treated, or is the whole blade hardened to 58-60 Rc?

Thanks in advance!
 
Some are differentially treated, whereas some are through hardened. I don't know which models are which, except in the case of the Battle Rat.

I believe the tan handled BRs are through-hardened, whereas the black handled ones have the differential heat treat.

Someone will come along who can tell you more about your specific SR knives.
 
So they are different processes then? I thought all their knives were differentially treated until today when I saw "through hardened" listed on the current Mojos.

Hmm. I hope you are wrong about the Black and Tan Battle Rats being through hardened, since I just bought a Battle Guard thinking it was differentially treated (which is just a B&T Battle Rat with a guard on it), and in my mind that is one of the features that makes these blades so tough.

I'm not sure I would want to go choppin' and beating on one of these if it was through hardened instead of differentially treated. I would think it would be more prone to breakage (BAD!).

Someone please help!!! I'm now a bit concerned, and waiting (im)patientially for clarification on this issue. Thanks!
 
I know the M6 is differentially hardened and the Ratmandu is not. I only know this because I read it at the Swamp Rat Company Store site. I find spec's. on many of the Busse family knives hard to come by. I guess asking the question on the forums is about the best way to get it answered.

Maybe Eric can list those models that are and are not differentially hardened.
 
Well, after a lot of digging here and over at the Swamp, here is what I have found.

It looks like for the most part, the larger Swamp Rat blades are differentially heat treated (more flexibility for the longer blades with more prying power), while the smaller ones are through hardened. The one exception I have found is that the Black and Tan Battle Rats ARE through hardened.

However, I can not find anything that mentions what heat treatment the Battle Guards received. On one hand, since they're the same color as the B&T Battle Rats I would guess they're through hardened, but on the other, I think they came out before the B&T Battle Rats (anyone know?) so maybe they're differentially heat treated.

So, we're still trying to figure out what heat treatment the Battle Guards received. Anyone???

PS - I keep getting a "Page cannot be displayed" HTTP 500 - Internal server error when I do searches here. What's up with that?
 
Some comments from the past by our esteemed Rat Leader Eric Isaacson:

...because there is less work involved for us to through harden them than to differential temper them. Because differential tempered blades require two separate heat treats they are much more time and labor intensive. Through hardened require only one heat treat.

However, the tan handles usually cost more so if they aren't priced lower this is the reason.
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You won't have any problems chopping with it, and there really wasn't a "switch" we just ran the black and tans with the through hardening to keep the price down. In all honesty you probably won't be able to tell any performance difference unless you are really pushing the envelope with them, however, we wanted to put some out at "extravaganza" prices (these were sold through one of the Knob Creek extravaganzas) and this was a way we could cut the cost on them and pass the savings on to the customer
 
mhawg said:
You won't have any problems chopping with it, and there really wasn't a "switch" we just ran the black and tans with the through hardening to keep the price down. In all honesty you probably won't be able to tell any performance difference unless you are really pushing the envelope with them, however, we wanted to put some out at "extravaganza" prices (these were sold through one of the Knob Creek extravaganzas) and this was a way we could cut the cost on them and pass the savings on to the customer
Click to expand...

I put the same topic to Eric back when I was looking for a Battle Rat, and this is exactly what he told me then. :thumbup:
 
Ya, I saw that during my searching today. I'm planning to keep (and USE) the knife anyway, but I would still like to know what heat treat it has, plus it would be nice for the record.

I just opened the box containing my Battle Guard, and I must say, I am IMPRESSED! :eek::thumbup::D

Can't wait to put it through some paces tomorrow (already shredded the box).:D
 
The Battle Guard is differentially heat treated just like the black on black Battle Rats. The only through hardened Battle Rats are the black blade/tan handle ones without the guard. All others are differentially heat treated.

Another interesting fact about the Battle Guard is that it is only one of two Battle Rats with a full flat grind (the other being the Satin Battle Rat). All others have a saber grind.
 
Rich,
Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware about the different grind on the Battle Guards; thanks! I suppose not having personally seen any other Battle Rats yet I wouldn't have known.
 
SpyderPhreak said:
Rich,
Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware about the different grind on the Battle Guards; thanks! I suppose not having personally seen any other Battle Rats yet I wouldn't have known.
Click to expand...

There are basically 4 "families" of Battle Rat.

1. The standard family. Differentially heat treated. Saber grind. Available in (blade/handle) black/black, tan/tan, forest camo/tan, swamp camo/ tan, and maybe? desert camo/tan.

2. The satin battle rat. Differentially heat treated. Full flat grind. Satin polished blade. Available only with a tan handle.

3. The through hardened battle rat. Through hardened. Saber grind. Available only in black/tan.

4. The battle guard. Differentially heat treated. Full flat grind. Guard. Available only in black/tan.

I may have missed one or two, but this is the general picture.
 
GREAT INFO!!! :thumbup:

It would be nice if this kind of info for each knife (plus basic specs) were available in one consolidated place somewhere (like a sticky). ;)
 
The Ratweiler and the Camp TRamp also had the differential treat. I wonder how that new Chopweiler is done?

btw, when did that become the offical name on that new knife?
 
For the record, the Chopweilers went up for sale today, and they are diferentially hardened.
 
Also, I found a listing of specs posted by DWRW recently in another thread. I am putting it here (although completely re-ordered it) and will be adding to it / editing it with other basic specs and HT info as I am able. Maybe once I have a complete SWKW list, I could post it to a new thread and get it stickied for reference. There are some Dogs in here too, so rather than get rid of the info, I'm going to list it and try for them too.

Currently Unknown HT Models:
Bandicoot.................= ?.? ounces; .190" thick; 4.5" blade; 9" oal
Howling Rat LM.........= 9.0 ounces; .190" thick; 4.16" blade; 9.3" oal
SS4........................= 5.5 ounces; .200" thick; 4.25" blade; 9" oal
Rat Daddy................= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 10.5" blade; 16.25" oal;
Swamp Warden.........= ?.? ounces; .190" thick; 3" blade; 7" oal
Bog Dog..................= 5.0 ounces; .140" thick ; 4.75" blade; 9.56" oal; D2 steel

Differential HT Models:
Desert Jack...............= ?.? ounces; .190" thick; 6" blade; 11.5" oal
M6..........................= 16.5 ounces; .25" thick; 6" blade; 11.8" oal
Rat Weiler.................= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 7.5" blade; 13" oal
Chopweilier...............= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 7.5" blade; 13.25" oal
Rat Mastiff................= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 9.75" blade; 15.375" oal;
Battle Rat................= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 9.5" blade; 14.5" oal;
Satin Battle Rat.........= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 9.5" blade; 14.5" oal; flat grind
Battle Guard..............= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 9.5" blade; 14.5" oal; flat grind
Camp Tramp............= 14.5 ounces; .25" thick; 7.5" blade; 12.5" oal

Through Hardened Models:
Ratmandu (G10).........= 11.0 ounces; .190" thick; 5.3125" blade; 10.5" oal
Ratmandu (micarta)....= 10.0 ounces; .190" thick; 5.3125" blade; 10.5" oal
Black & Tan Battle Rat
Mini/Uncle Mojo.......= ??.? ounces; .25" thick; 6.75" blade; 12.375" oal

Dogs:
Yard Guard..............= 16.0 ounces; .277" thick; 7.25" blade; 12.4" oal

Howler (Res-C)..........= 6.0 ounces; .188" thick; 4.5" blade; 9" oal
Scrapper 6 LE............= 12.5 ounces; .268" thick; 6.25" blade; 11.44" oal
DM..........................= 9.0 ounces; .268" thick; 5.25" blade; 9.75" oal
Yard Keeper LE..........= 7.5 ounces; .268" thick; 4.5" blade; 9" oal
 
SpyderPhreak said:
So they are different processes then? I thought all their knives were differentially treated until today when I saw "through hardened" listed on the current Mojos.

Hmm. I hope you are wrong about the Black and Tan Battle Rats being through hardened, since I just bought a Battle Guard thinking it was differentially treated (which is just a B&T Battle Rat with a guard on it), and in my mind that is one of the features that makes these blades so tough.

I'm not sure I would want to go choppin' and beating on one of these if it was through hardened instead of differentially treated. I would think it would be more prone to breakage (BAD!).

Someone please help!!! I'm now a bit concerned, and waiting (im)patientially for clarification on this issue. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Trust me, the through hardened versions will be hella tough as well. You can't break one...........and if by some combo of brute force and lack of intelligence you do manage to break one, it is covered by the warranty anyway, so hey, new one for you.

Don't let it concern you at all. About the only thing you will be missing on a through hardened version is if you strip it, and etch it or bead blast it you won't get the nifty temper line.
 
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