Throwing Out the Strops, Pastes, Sprays

cziv

cziv

Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
10,038
For the past year I've been stropping my knives dull. I have read every stropping thread more than once and much more online.

Today the worm turned. I had used my Izula a bit the other day and it has a beautiful mirror edge - with the best of them. ;)

I used to only strop about 10 passes per side with green paste and be done but in search of a sharper edge I'd progressed in diamond compounds/sprays and more passes.

I mean I'd strop 40 strokes per side w/ 2 micron paste. Move to 1 micron and hit it maybe 50 per side and the same with .5 micron.

That's a lot of strokes and time too!!

I've tried the shallow angle strop position, the "right at the bite" position and got beautiful mirror edges but they never got super sharp.

Today my EDC Izula wouldn't raise a single hair on my arm. I took a brand new one out of the drawer and it shaved easily. I studied the edge and found it to be a bit rougher in appearance.

I took out my x-fine/xx-fine diafold and gave my mirror edge dullard, about 8 light and careful psses per side on both sides, using both stones. I immediately felt extreme sharpness on the edge.

I got in the sunlight (have light hair) and proceeded to shave "piles" of hair off of each arm and sliced paper like a laser. The H*LL with stropping - a waste of time IMHO! ;)
 
If you don't wait them I'll take them. I'm always looking to get sharper and I'd like to give them a try.
Not trying to shake the tin can, but I don't want them going to waste if somebody else can enjoy them.
 
A_Blade_Afficionado said:
If you don't wait them I'll take them. I'm always looking to get sharper and I'd like to give them a try.
Not trying to shake the tin can, but I don't want them going to waste if somebody else can enjoy them.
Click to expand...

Hmm, let me do the math? 2 Mr2Blues strops at $39, Hand American 2 micron paste $20+, Hand American 1 micron 21 carat spray $29, Hand American .5 micron 21 carat spray $29 = $117 plus about $10 shipping = $127 - dicount for one use of each compond puls good shape on strops - $30 = $97. Sure, I'll put them up on the exchange if you want to put some jingle in my cup.
 
Crap, somebody beat me to it. I am getting ready to buy the DMT pastes if you don't have any to give up...:D

On the original point however, two things.

1) If you are dulling your knives by stropping, you are doing something wrong. You should feel them get sharper at each stage, not just assume they are. They will actually feel and be sharper, not just the "polished edges don't cut" sharp. When you get the "polished edges don't cut" sharpness, it means you rounded the edge over.

2) There is a time or use for all different kinds of sharpness. I don't put the same edge on working knives as I do choppers, or as I do on a dressy EDC blade. You don't have to make every knife hair-whittling if you don't want, you don't have to make any of them that way. The stropping is for getting a high performance edge, which is like having a very high performance car. You aren't worried about mileage, comfort, maintenance, etc., you are worried about performance. I look at sharpening much like maintenance,(I guess it is...)in that there are some tools you love to maintain, and others you have to.

If it is just a race to see how fast you can sharpen knives, stones, strops, and guides are all the wrong tool.
 
Any Cal. said:
Crap, somebody beat me to it. I am getting ready to buy the DMT pastes if you don't have any to give up...:D

On the original point however, two things.

1) If you are dulling your knives by stropping, you are doing something wrong. ...SNIP...When you get the "polished edges don't cut" sharpness, it means you rounded the edge over.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! :thumbup:

2) There is a time or use for all different kinds of sharpness. I don't put the same edge on working knives as I do choppers, or as I do on a dressy EDC blade.
Click to expand...

Another very important consideration!

The stropping is for getting a high performance edge, which is like having a very high performance car. You aren't worried about mileage, comfort, maintenance, etc., you are worried about performance.
Click to expand...

And yet another! :thumbup:
Very well said.

Although I love the sorts of edges I can get with strops, both with and without compounds, I never strop my kitchen knives. (Except for my sushi knives.) In fact, I usually don't take them higher than a Sharpmaker's fine stones, then just steel them regularly afterwords. But my EDC is ALWAYS stropped as is my favorite hunting knife. For me, stropping puts the finishing touches on very sharp knives.

Before you get rid of your strops and compounds, why not get together with someone who can video you stropping a knife. Then watch the video and see if there is something that you are doing, without even thinking about it or noticing, that is ruining the edge you get with stones. I've used this video method for skiing, motorcycle riding, rock climbing, and even playing guitar, and with each have found one or two (or more! :eek:) things that I could correct in my approach to them, and improve my skills. Give it a try. You have nothing to lose and might find out something useful!

Stitchawl
 
With all due respect -
I've tried the shallow angle strop position, the "right at the bite" position and got beautiful mirror edges but they never got super sharp
Click to expand...

I don't know where else to turn on this? I've watched the KSF site's videos and many others on you tube. I'll give it one more go tonight after I put a new product (fake lipstick stun gun) on my website. After that I hear you - my glossy edges will still cut but they go from high performance to low perfomance when I do it.

I may go back to the old 8 -10 passes on each side like I used to with the green chromium oxide strop. They were a lot sharper. Maybe I need to go to a 6 micron first light, then to 3, and reduce the time spent stropping?

We'll see. Gotta work! Thanks guys :D
 
Not sure if you already do this or not, but when you're done with a stroke, stop the knife, lay it flat, then lift up. Don't continue the stroke when you lift up, that rounds the edge.
 
I use a Lansky sharpening system down to the 1000 grit stone and then whip out the Dremel with a felt wheel and Craftsman polishing compound. Gets my knives shaving sharp.

Terrible picture, but that was a short pass on a spot on my arm I test all my knives. $35 knife made of 440c.

7b8b2014.jpg
 
The easiest and cheapest thing to do is to just get some cheap polishing compound (a tube of Dico SCR for $6) and rub it on your shorts.

Strop your blade by running it flat against your shorts with just enough pressure to bring the cloth up to the edge. It takes zero skill and gets my knives at least as sharp as my 0.1 micron diamond paste on the lansky. I can cut 1mm pieces off a free hanging hair with this method
 
Thanks for all of your kind suggestions. I just put some screaming sharp edges on an Izula, a Centofante 3 and a Sanrenmu 710. I shaved so much hair off my arms, I'll have razor burn in the morning.

I figured that since I was putting so many passes per side, (see original post) that I was getting sloppy with technique and also probably putting too much pressure on the strokes and rounding the edges.

I slowed it down and did only 8 (not 40) very light passes on each side going from 2 micron, then 8 per side at 1 micron, and finished with 8 per side at .5 micron.

If you've ever seen the edge that comes off a DMT xx-fine 8000 mesh stone (3 microns) it's already mirror like without strong light and a bit of magnification.

All I needed to do was those few strokes on progressively finer grit strops to bring them to almost straight razor sharp. They're more than good enough for me now.

I guess I'll be keeping my supplies now. Really, thank you all for your help and keep up with what works for you! :D
 
Xsrcing-that knife has never seen real 440-C!
Jimmyh- rubbing compound on your shorts sounds like something I would suggest. If it works for you, I guess its OK.
Cziv- glad you got it figured out!
 
XSrcing said:
I use a Lansky sharpening system down to the 1000 grit stone and then whip out the Dremel with a felt wheel and Craftsman polishing compound. Gets my knives shaving sharp.

Terrible picture, but that was a short pass on a spot on my arm I test all my knives. $35 knife made of 440c.
Click to expand...

The point isn't to get the best shiny edge to check out your recent shave

The point is to have the edge refined to it's sitting at the Center if you look at it from the top.

Polishing the Edge will not make your knife any sharper. In Fact, you can get a Shaving knife after a 120Grit stone

Demonstration:

After 120Grit:
dsc07028o.jpg


After 220Grit:
dsc07029z.jpg


After 600 Grit:
dsc07031e.jpg


After 1000 Grit:
dsc07033h.jpg



Full on Polish with Edge pro 6000Grit Tape:
dsc07035.jpg
 
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xtestifyx said:
The point isn't to get the best shiny edge to check out your recent shave

The point is to have the edge refined to it's sitting at the Center if you look at it from the top.

Polishing the Edge will not make your knife any sharper. In Fact, you can get a Shaving knife after a 120Grit stone
Click to expand...
When you say "shave" you mean pressing the edge against your skin? Because when I try to take hair off with one of my knives, I typically don't touch my skin with the edge because I'm afraid it might just shave the skin off too:eek:.

If I have a hard time getting my hair to pop off with an edge finished with my slotted paper wheel, I can't really imagine that something finished with 120 grit would do anything.
 
You would be very surprised what can be done on a quality coarse stone.

Also what you are describing is called hair popping, it a different level of shaving sharpness.
 
:confused::eek::eek:
Good thing you regained your senses Cziv :)
congrats on getting your technique back, you found your mojo
 
Wait, does using the edge pro 6000 grit polishing tape have the same effect as stropping, or can you get an ever more hair-popping edge by stropping with finer compound?
 
BladeChemist said:
Wait, does using the edge pro 6000 grit polishing tape have the same effect as stropping, or can you get an ever more hair-popping edge by stropping with finer compound?
Click to expand...

Stropping with a .25mic diamond past will produce a better edge than the 6000 grit polishing tapes. Moving from there to a bare leather strop will take it even further. Stropping with a good quality horsehide strop (without any compound) will produce the absolute finest edge possible by hand. The silicates in that leather are between .01-.1 microns in size.


Stitchawl
 
I never quite got the hang of stropping. The only times stropping improved the edge for me is either if I botched up my freehand on my DMT stones, or that one or two times I went from my 1000 grit Edge Pro stone to my 1 micron strop.

After I started using paper wheels, nothing seemed to give me a sharper edge.
 
I can strop coming off the paper wheels and get even sharper edges. But maybe my knives aren't as sharp as others after the wheels.

So the sharpest you can get is from the wheels, but you have a hard time popping hairs with that method? A strop with some quality diamond spray/paste should definitely get you a lot sharper if that is the case.
 
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