Ti alloy grosse messer

Mecha

Mecha

Titanium Bladesmith
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
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Hi custom and handmade folks. Sometimes new stuff gets posted in the sword area that come and go quickly and aren't seen. I just wanted to show this here so that you can see it before it gets buried into the history of the forum.

Normally I don't post work anywhere but this site and the German blade forums. It's a bit of a troll maneuver, because many Germans seem to get quite worked up or even outright angry when they see a ti alloy sword! :D

The main thread is here:

http://bladeforums.com/threads/forged-titanum-alloy-grosse-messer.1488632/

As pointed out by some Germans, this sword is more of a "falchion" than a "grosse messer." This is due to the hilt. As I'm told, the grosse messer or "big knife" was created because at the time only German nobility were allowed to wear a sword (assuming a "sword" is double-edged and has a hilt explicitly made for fighting). So an enormous single-edged blade was conjured up that had a hilt with two slabs on the tang as you would see with a knife, which technically made it a "big knife" and not a sword! According to an Austrian, at 36", this is somewhat of a small version of such a sword. The crossguard is just over 6" long.

Thanks for looking.

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The Germans can be an anal bunch...so it's a "Kleine Grosse Messer" ;)

I still love it Sam, great work :D

~Chip
 
WValtakis said:
The Germans can be an anal bunch...so it's a "Kleine Grosse Messer" ;)

I still love it Sam, great work :D

~Chip
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Lolz! I like to think of it as "precision." :D Thanks WValtakis. Even though it looks plain, it was a lot of work and time to make, which is why I want it to be seen. It's probably the largest beta ti alloy sword ever made!
 
Looks great. I always thought the Grosse Messer was an awesome sword/knife. This one's blade shape sort of reminds me of a Chinese Dao.
 
Lapedog said:
Looks great. I always thought the Grosse Messer was an awesome sword/knife. This one's blade shape sort of reminds me of a Chinese Dao.
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Not surprising, Lapedog. Most of my stuff looks dao-ish, and it's my favorite sword type. :D
 
I love Dao type tips. I think they are onenof the most underatted tip designs out there.
 
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's quite a beast my friend!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonderful!!!!!!!!! :cool:
 
I showed this thread to my kid, and she wants this sword. She asked how much. I laughed. You're going to school instead, I said. Maybe that way you'll get a job that'll allow you to afford one
 
Mecha said:
As pointed out by some Germans, this sword is more of a "falchion" than a "grosse messer." This is due to the hilt. As I'm told, the grosse messer or "big knife" was created because at the time only German nobility were allowed to wear a sword (assuming a "sword" is double-edged and has a hilt explicitly made for fighting). So an enormous single-edged blade was conjured up that had a hilt with two slabs on the tang as you would see with a knife, which technically made it a "big knife" and not a sword!
Click to expand...

Memory is a little fuzzy here, but I believe some guys on a different sword forum found evidence of disputes between the sword maker's guild and the knife maker's guild. Each wanted the sole rights to making large single edged blades. So to compromise, each developed their own style. The Falchion has a more sword-like hilt, and were made by the sword guilds. Messers, with their knife-like slab handle scales, were made by the knife guilds.
 
Ha! Thanks for looking everyone, and for the compliments.

the possum said:
Memory is a little fuzzy here, but I believe some guys on a different sword forum found evidence of disputes between the sword maker's guild and the knife maker's guild. Each wanted the sole rights to making large single edged blades. So to compromise, each developed their own style. The Falchion has a more sword-like hilt, and were made by the sword guilds. Messers, with their knife-like slab handle scales, were made by the knife guilds.
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff, the possum. You'd think there would be more concrete historical evidence about such things, considering how ubiquitous and well-regulated weaponsmithing has been throughout time. When it comes to swords, often the reasons for many things are never known for sure, and the debates continue on.
 
nice (daos and messers are my two favorites, by the way). That is a lot like a falchion, more so than anything else. But, in truth, and number of the langsmesser and kriegsmessers (the really big ones) were hilted that way, but with a nagel. The grosse messer, as seen in training manuscript from the Middle Ages were often about 18-24" blades, and fairly wide. I have pics of one I made, if you care. I like the shape a lot. I am not too sure about titanium. It doesn't bother me, I just don't understand it, so I can judge how the sword will work when you use it. the technical parts of titanium are beyond me. The shape looks great, though
 
There are many swords in the Grosse Messer Catagory. Some Falchion blades are quite similar. Then put a dish hilt on it and suddenly you have something resembling a cutlass, put a knuckle bow hilt on it and you have a hanger.
 
kevin (theprofessor) said:
nice (daos and messers are my two favorites, by the way). That is a lot like a falchion, more so than anything else. But, in truth, and number of the langsmesser and kriegsmessers (the really big ones) were hilted that way, but with a nagel. The grosse messer, as seen in training manuscript from the Middle Ages were often about 18-24" blades, and fairly wide. I have pics of one I made, if you care. I like the shape a lot. I am not too sure about titanium. It doesn't bother me, I just don't understand it, so I can judge how the sword will work when you use it. the technical parts of titanium are beyond me. The shape looks great, though
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By all means, post up your messer!

Yep, everyone is saying that this blade is mostly like a falchion. The training manual grosse messers you mention sound almost like giant Southern fightin' bowies! My trusted Austrian source says that the grosse messers, at least from his area, would be clearly over 40" long. Lots of variation, apparently.

As for the functionality, the sword was probably around 70% of the weight of a steel version made exactly the same way, balance point about 3-4" in front of the guard. Functions just like a quick, springy sword, and very sharp. It would have no trouble doing exactly what a sword does. I cut the edge of my palm cleanly open just barely brushing the fine edge right after it was sharpened.
 
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