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Ti frame locks or lockbacks??
- Thread starter gine
- Start date
Hellow people:thumbup:.I have a quick question to ask of you,what would be a stronger lock??A titanium frame lock like on the zt301 and JYD 2Stronger for what? prying, spine whacking, using as a ninja fence step?
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2001
- Messages
- 3,157
I would ask what you have in mind... Stronger in what type of use? IMO the only thing that liner type locks have going for them is their simplicity and ease of closing. ..Then there's build quality and materials.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 12,955
They are both plenty strong for the uses normally seen in a folding knife. Lockbacks can be plenty strong, there is a bit more of a trust factor (trust that the maker or manufacturer did it right) with a lockback since its unlikely you'll really know for sure how well the lock actually secures the blade unless you can disassemble to gain some idea of how it looks when locked open. Even then it won't mean much unless you know a bit about them but it can at least let you know if it looks precarious or not. Frame locks look stronger than they are sometimes and when made as good as possible they can be quite strong but its dependent on a couple of things regarding how its built. For example it may be built like a tank but if the lock contact is all wrong with a sharp angle and the lock barely engages to secure the blade it may not be that strong at all. If the lock cuts are paper thin where the lock is given spring by bending it then it can be the weak link in the chain for extreme load to the handle, especially in longer bodied ones allowing a lot of leverage to be applied downward in use.
Even thin in the lock cut area, a frame lock can usually take quite a bit of stress but quite a bit is 100 pounds or less of downward pressure on the lanyard end of the folder handle with the blade open which any adult woman is capable of putting on the handle. Lockbacks can hold quite a bit and certainly 80 pounds with really strong ones over 100 pounds on the tail end before the lock would defeat. But this is in testing with free weights and no human hand wrapped securely in a white knuckle grip around the handle. The frame lock tends to act much like a liner lock once the human hand is out of the picture. The hand wrapped around the lock as its held in the hand during use actually can cushion stress, and reinforce the lock contact as well as secure the lock so it can't move toward release under loads that would surely cause it to defeat if your hand was not there. This to some extent is the case with a lockback also if your hand is secured on the lockbar in a white knuckle grip I guess but its not going to be near as secured and reliable as the frame lock secured in a good strong hand.
Further regarding strength. If you want to use the knife you carry as a leg up in a pinch you don't want a folder in my opinion. Use a fixed blade for such a thing if you just have to do it. Even then you would want to be sure you were not standing on the flat of the blade but on the spine of it with the edge down toward the ground. Some folders like the Fulcrum II by Extreme Ratio, which is a folder I tested once can really support a 200 pound man on the locked folder with the blade clamped in a vice and supported so the blade could not move up or down but they are not made to handle this kind of load after being hammered into a tree or brick mortar joint so you can stand on it to lift yourself up. I just did it to see if the lock was actually that strong. It was on the one I had! Thats a strong locking mechanism.
Lastly. A lot of people get focused all on strength looking at folders forgetting that strength is only one aspect of a good folder. Its a little known fact that in free weight testing liner locks are quite strong even side by side with a lot of frame locks (those pesty lock cuts again) but liner locks can be problematic for reliabilty. You have to look also at reliability in folders and lockbacks generally speaking are strong in all the right ways, and reliable in normal and even some extreme uses. Frame locks are also quite reliable and even when the lock cuts can make them technically weaker than some liner locks because again, they are still plenty strong to get through most all uses it will ever see so either of these are a good choice for a good strong as you can buy, reliable as you can buy folder. Both of these type locks are my favorite type for all uses a folder ever sees. Titanium is quite durable, and if the frame lock is made of titanium it offers other benefits such as extreme temp. durability and a 'memory' where even when stressed beyond levels that would surely permanently deform a steel folder body the titanium will snap right back to shape.
Even thin in the lock cut area, a frame lock can usually take quite a bit of stress but quite a bit is 100 pounds or less of downward pressure on the lanyard end of the folder handle with the blade open which any adult woman is capable of putting on the handle. Lockbacks can hold quite a bit and certainly 80 pounds with really strong ones over 100 pounds on the tail end before the lock would defeat. But this is in testing with free weights and no human hand wrapped securely in a white knuckle grip around the handle. The frame lock tends to act much like a liner lock once the human hand is out of the picture. The hand wrapped around the lock as its held in the hand during use actually can cushion stress, and reinforce the lock contact as well as secure the lock so it can't move toward release under loads that would surely cause it to defeat if your hand was not there. This to some extent is the case with a lockback also if your hand is secured on the lockbar in a white knuckle grip I guess but its not going to be near as secured and reliable as the frame lock secured in a good strong hand.
Further regarding strength. If you want to use the knife you carry as a leg up in a pinch you don't want a folder in my opinion. Use a fixed blade for such a thing if you just have to do it. Even then you would want to be sure you were not standing on the flat of the blade but on the spine of it with the edge down toward the ground. Some folders like the Fulcrum II by Extreme Ratio, which is a folder I tested once can really support a 200 pound man on the locked folder with the blade clamped in a vice and supported so the blade could not move up or down but they are not made to handle this kind of load after being hammered into a tree or brick mortar joint so you can stand on it to lift yourself up. I just did it to see if the lock was actually that strong. It was on the one I had! Thats a strong locking mechanism.
Lastly. A lot of people get focused all on strength looking at folders forgetting that strength is only one aspect of a good folder. Its a little known fact that in free weight testing liner locks are quite strong even side by side with a lot of frame locks (those pesty lock cuts again) but liner locks can be problematic for reliabilty. You have to look also at reliability in folders and lockbacks generally speaking are strong in all the right ways, and reliable in normal and even some extreme uses. Frame locks are also quite reliable and even when the lock cuts can make them technically weaker than some liner locks because again, they are still plenty strong to get through most all uses it will ever see so either of these are a good choice for a good strong as you can buy, reliable as you can buy folder. Both of these type locks are my favorite type for all uses a folder ever sees. Titanium is quite durable, and if the frame lock is made of titanium it offers other benefits such as extreme temp. durability and a 'memory' where even when stressed beyond levels that would surely permanently deform a steel folder body the titanium will snap right back to shape.
STR probably said this already, but materials and attention to detai/quality matter more than the lock type itself. The knives you mentioned are all high quality and the locks will stand up to normal use. Now it's pretty much a matter of personal preference.
ive always felt that a framelock feels stronger and there tends to be less play
in any direction than on lockbacks and to agree with STR there is a certain trust factor in the design of lockback because you cant see the lockpoint on a framelock its all out there and ive never had a framelock fail on me but i have had a few lockbacks fail on me for multiple reasons but overall i prefer framelocks
in any direction than on lockbacks and to agree with STR there is a certain trust factor in the design of lockback because you cant see the lockpoint on a framelock its all out there and ive never had a framelock fail on me but i have had a few lockbacks fail on me for multiple reasons but overall i prefer framelocks