Time to Replace My Coarse Stone

M

me2

Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
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My Norton 220 grit water stone has been with me for a dozen years or so. I think it’s time to replace it. It’s getting thin enough that I might break it. I’m leaning toward a Shapton Glass 120 grit stone, with the intent of adding a 500 and 2000 over time. Any other recommendations for a coarse replacement? I prefer to avoid diamonds if possible.
 
Depends on what you mainly use the coarse stone for. The 120 grit Shaptons tend to be aimed at people who do a lot of major thinning and/or tip/chip repairs. They are very coarse. I would probably lean more towards the Shapton Pro/Kuromaku 120 vs the Glass for that. If it's more just resetting the bevel on really dull knives, then I would look more towards the 220 or 320 in either the Pro or Glass as far as from Shapton. There are other great options from other brands as well.

Of course if you are in the US, I've heard great things about the stones from FortyTwoBlades FortyTwoBlades as well and bonus for supporting a smaller local outfit. No doubt you will get great support with any questions you may have as well vs trying to get info from one of the major players like Shapton.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Depending on the specific context of use you might give the Manticore or American Mutt a look, but of course (of coarse???) I'm a little biased. :D
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How do they fare with Japanese laminated kitchen knives? I have two that have not behaved well with Norton SiC stones.

I don’t have any supersteel/CPM knives anymore and don’t plan on getting any with the exception of one design I really like. My son has a Mini Bugout in S30V, but so far that seems fine with my current setup. The rest of my knives are standard stainless steels like 8Cr, AUS-8 and VG-10.
 
chalby said:
Depends on what you mainly use the coarse stone for. The 120 grit Shaptons tend to be aimed at people who do a lot of major thinning and/or tip/chip repairs. They are very coarse. I would probably lean more towards the Shapton Pro/Kuromaku 120 vs the Glass for that. If it's more just resetting the bevel on really dull knives, then I would look more towards the 220 or 320 in either the Pro or Glass as far as from Shapton. There are other great options from other brands as well.

Of course if you are in the US, I've heard great things about the stones from FortyTwoBlades FortyTwoBlades as well and bonus for supporting a smaller local outfit. No doubt you will get great support with any questions you may have as well vs trying to get info from one of the major players like Shapton.
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Ok. I didn’t know it was that coarse. A 220 might be better if I go that route.
 
me2 said:
How do they fare with Japanese laminated kitchen knives? I have two that have not behaved well with Norton SiC stones.

I don’t have any supersteel/CPM knives anymore and don’t plan on getting any with the exception of one design I really like. My son has a Mini Bugout in S30V, but so far that seems fine with my current setup. The rest of my knives are standard stainless steels like 8Cr, AUS-8 and VG-10.
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I'm not sure in what way they "didn't behave" with the Nortons so would have a hard time assessing if the particular ones you have would be good matches, let alone what specific stage you're trying to tackle. The Manticore and American Mutt stones are both well-suited to moderately high-pressure use in the bevel-shaping stage, particularly when dealing with damaged or very worn edges. Because of how coarse they are, they do fine on high-vanadium steels due to the small size of vanadium carbides relative to the abrasive grain size. If needing something that balances aggression vs. the abrasive grain size, the American Mutt does a good job once broken in due to the mix of grit sizes in it, but you do need to be sure you're using sufficient pressure to allow worn grit to come off or you can glaze the stone and it really responds best to loose-grit lapping if you need to resurface it.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
[...] but of course (of coarse???) I'm a little biased. :D
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A pun a day keeps the doctor away!


I don't have Shaptons but as far as I remember the coarse grits seem to be soft. If you are going to do a lot of grinding, rebevelling, repairs or so these stones might not last too long. Especially as the Glass stones are quite thin.
 
I have both the manticore and mutt. They're both top notch. Especially for the not infrequent occasions I'm asked to sharpen someone else's knives, which are usually in complete need of reprofiling.

Used them just a few months back to re-bevel Ms. Wild Willie's 15 year old griptillian, turned out wonderfully.
 
Papilio said:
A pun a day keeps the doctor away!


I don't have Shaptons but as far as I remember the coarse grits seem to be soft. If you are going to do a lot of grinding, rebevelling, repairs or so these stones might not last too long. Especially as the Glass stones are quite thin.
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They're probably meant more for things like chisel backs and plane irons where you have a much larger contact surface than you do with most knives.
 
That’s a good point. The video reviews I checked were mostly chisels our plane blades.

My 4” petty from Tojiro did not agree with my Norton Economy stone. I think the stone just wasn’t cutting and just smeared the edge resulting in substantial chipping all along the edge. I’m using what’s left of my Norton water stone to resharpen it now. I had to take the edge down 5-7 thousandths to if an inch to get past the chips.
 
The Spyderco CBN 400/800 mesh bench stone is an agressive 8x3" stone, and it holds up well. The 400 mesh side cuts like a beaver, I rarely want anything more coarse than that. I usually start and often finish with just the 800 side and a strop.

I am not crazy about the Shapton glass stones. They feel soft to me, and they leave a frosty, satin finish that makes me wonder why I am using them. The Spyderco CBN stone cuts a lot faster than the Shapton, for me.
 
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I have the mantacore and just reprofiled a Kabar short knife that the factory grinds were horrible. It took a little work but it will shred printer paper now. I hope to try to make a feather stick over the weekend if it is not to rainy.

I have not found any other stone that can quickly cut medal like the maniticor, and it has had a lot of use lately repairing tips that my friends keep rounding off on their knives.
 
I don’t really do much rebeveling now. I haven’t bought a new knife in a couple of years. As much as it pains me to do so, I have the bevels on my generic stainless kitchen knives set at 22 degrees and finish on a ceramic rod. My carry knives range from 12-17 degrees, depending on use and size.

I do have some knife making projects in mind that will require new bevels on ground blanks, so a very aggressive stone is still useful. The Manticore is a water stone, correct?
 
me2 said:
I don’t really do much rebeveling now. I haven’t bought a new knife in a couple of years. As much as it pains me to do so, I have the bevels on my generic stainless kitchen knives set at 22 degrees and finish on a ceramic rod. My carry knives range from 12-17 degrees, depending on use and size.

I do have some knife making projects in mind that will require new bevels on ground blanks, so a very aggressive stone is still useful. The Manticore is a water stone, correct?
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The Manticore can be used with water OR oil according to preference. It comes dry. :)
 
What would the next step be from the Manticore? I assume the Arctic Fox? My medium stone is a 1000 grit King. It is equally thin but doesn’t wear nearly as fast as the coarser stones.
 
me2 said:
As much as it pains me to do so, I have the bevels on my generic stainless kitchen knives set at 22 degrees and finish on a ceramic rod.
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Why so obtuse? I have some old stainless knives described as having "below average heat treat" and I still don't do that.
 
Because my family wrecks them otherwise. This is faster to remove damage, both because the damage is less and the more obtuse bevel sharpens faster.
 
Papilio said:
I don't have Shaptons but as far as I remember the coarse grits seem to be soft. If you are going to do a lot of grinding, rebevelling, repairs or so these stones might not last too long. Especially as the Glass stones are quite thin.
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I believe that applies to the #220 and #320 but not the #120. See KKF about it.
 
me2 said:
What would the next step be from the Manticore? I assume the Arctic Fox? My medium stone is a 1000 grit King. It is equally thin but doesn’t wear nearly as fast as the coarser stones.
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Pardon me for beating the same drum, but the fine side of the Zandstra FOSS stone is very handy here, and it will set up well for a medium grit stone. (But I don't like the King 1200 I have as I find it too soft and slow.)

I use the Manticore, Bull Thistle, and Arctic Fox hand stones for machetes. The Arctic Fox is fast but not that fast IMO; you'll still want something between it and the Manticore if you go that route.
 
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