Time to step up my sharpening game!

[f250]

So I discovered BF about a year ago. I was at a knife ownership low point, and only had 1 good user (Kershaw breakout) which broke a spring, and I needed to replace.

A year later, I have discovered fixed blades, spydercos, and traditionals. I have about 6 or 7 folders I rotate through my edc and 4 beckers which I haven't used a lot, but are slowly getting used more and more.

I have 2 Japanese water stones (800/4000 and 1000/6000), a cheap worn out Smith's 6" medium diamond bench stone, a bunch of sandpaper which I haven't really used, and several small diamond pocket stones I use for touchups sometimes. I also have a 2 sided leather strop loaded with black/green compound.

I can turn out a basic hair shaving edge with few issues. BUT I am having trouble with reprofiling all of these new knives, it takes forever, and sometimes my resulting burrs aren't consistent. My biggest annoyance is it is taking way too freaking long. I love sharpening, but I'll spend an hour trying to reprofile a bk11 and still can't get a consistent burr the length of the edge.

Do I need to invest in more/different equipment or work on my technique? I'm aware hand sharpening is more time consuming, I like hand sharpening and maintaining that skill. I'm just getting frustrated, it seems to take me longer than it used to. I want to develop more consistent results, and I want to start turning out some scary sharp edges.

Suggestions? Questions about my technique/tools? What do you guys think?

 

[f250]

Two more things:
First, one of my biggest problem areas has been apexing the tip of my knife...I'll develop a good small burr and then a razor edge on the belly, but still not quite apex the last 1/4 inch of the tip. I'm guessing that's a technique issue, not sure how to remedy.

Second, the knife that was most frustrating for me recently was my bk24 while I was attempting to reprofile it. It's d2 steel...is it possible that I wasn't having much of an issue at all besides my impatience?

 

[HeavyHanded]

The greater the curve (up to a point) the more you have to elevate the handle to maintain good contact. Is important to stop often and check where exactly you're grinding away and make corrections if needed. Marking the edge up with a Sharpie can be a big help initially.

The D2 steel can give a lot of trouble to some stone types, especially when reprofiling. Might be a good idea to get a combination silicon carbide oil stone and use that for the heavier grinding, transition to the 800 waterstone and up once the heavy lifting is done. 800 grit can do the job on lower RC steels like common kitchen cutlery, but for most stuff it should be replaced by something more aggressive.

 

[Jason B.]

A good SiC combo stone on the cost effective side or an Atoma 140 diamond plate on the money to burn side.

Your two waterstones are redundant, too close together in grit to be used together and with the likelyhood of them being King stones their sharpening abilities will be limited to more simple carbon or simple stainless steels. They work but take a higher degree of skill to use which makes getting a quality edge that much harder.

Hand sharpening can actually be pretty fast with practice and good tools, go through the stickies at the top of this forum, add a coarse stone and see what happens.

 

[f250]

Ok that makes sense.

Suggestions for brands of sic stones?

I honestly didn't know that the Japanese water stones were better suited to simpler steels. I've always used them with pretty good results, but that's always been with simple steels.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Ok that makes sense.

Suggestions for brands of sic stones?

I honestly didn't know that the Japanese water stones were better suited to simpler steels. I've always used them with pretty good results, but that's always been with simple steels.

Norton Crystolon (their higher-end SiC stone). OR, you might also pick up a Norton 'Economy' 6" x 2" stone at Home Depot, which is also in SiC, and not expensive at all; it works well. Might be the easiest and least-expensive way to introduce yourself to a SiC stone. ACE Hardware also carries stones that are functionally identical (in SiC), but in a range of sizes from pocket stones up to 8" x 2".


David

 

[sir_mike]

Norton Crystolon (their higher-end SiC stone). OR, you might also pick up a Norton 'Economy' 6" x 2" stone at Home Depot, which is also in SiC, and not expensive at all; it works well. Might be the easiest and least-expensive way to introduce yourself to a SiC stone. ACE Hardware also carries stones that are functionally identical (in SiC), but in a range of sizes from pocket stones up to 8" x 2".


David

I didnt know that stone was a SIC one. I have one and it seems to do a nice job. I use it dry and do pretty well with it but I am also new at freehand sharpening!

 

[f250]

Norton Crystolon (their higher-end SiC stone). OR, you might also pick up a Norton 'Economy' 6" x 2" stone at Home Depot, which is also in SiC, and not expensive at all; it works well. Might be the easiest and least-expensive way to introduce yourself to a SiC stone. ACE Hardware also carries stones that are functionally identical (in SiC), but in a range of sizes from pocket stones up to 8" x 2".


David

Awesome suggestion. I'm going by Home Depot today, and I've got 4 knives that need fresh edges. Project for the day!

I'm going to try this, and then I'll post an update.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I didnt know that stone was a SIC one. I have one and it seems to do a nice job. I use it dry and do pretty well with it but I am also new at freehand sharpening!

Norton's current version of it is SiC. Up until a few years ago (think it was 2008 or so), they previously made it in aluminum oxide; that stone is 'greyer' in appearance, and the newer SiC looks more 'black' (I confirmed all this in an email exchange with Norton and their parent company, Saint-Gobain Abrasives). I mention this, because some HD stores may still stock the older one.

Awesome suggestion. I'm going by Home Depot today, and I've got 4 knives that need fresh edges. Project for the day!

I'm going to try this, and then I'll post an update.

Per the above, look for a blacker-looking stone, if you do pick one up. The stone at right in the pic below, is what the SiC looks like as compared to the other two, which are in aluminum oxide (the NEW SiC version is still cataloged as part number 87933; older AlOx version is seen in center, below):


David

 

[sir_mike]

Norton's current version of it is SiC. Up until a few years ago (think it was 2008 or so), they previously made it in aluminum oxide; that stone is 'greyer' in appearance, and the newer SiC looks more 'black' (I confirmed all this in an email exchange with Norton and their parent company, Saint Gobain Abrasives). I mention this, because some HD stores may still stock the older one.



Per the above, look for a blacker-looking stone, if you do pick one up. The stone at right in the pic below, is what the SiC looks like as compared to the other two, which are in aluminum oxide (the NEW SiC version is still cataloged as part number 87933; older AlOx version is seen in center, below):

David

Thanks for the info and pics. The one I have is in the middle. I picked it up about a year or so ago! It looks like my local HD store has the one on the right now according to there web site as it appears to be darker (like more black) but it is hard to tell so I might have to pick one up so I can have both the ALox and SIC versions!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks for the info and pics. The one I have is in the middle. I picked it up about a year or so ago! It looks like my local HD store has the one on the right now according to there web site as it appears to be darker (like more black) but it is hard to tell so I might have to pick one up so I can have both the ALox and SIC versions!

One other characteristic I've noticed with the SiC stones is, they're lighter in weight for their size. I've been 'accumulating' SiC stones lately, from Home Depot and ACE Hardware, and I also picked up an AlOx stone at ACE. When handling them side-by-side, the AlOx is noticeably heavier/denser-feeling, which I found interesting. The SiC stones also have a very cool-sounding 'glassy' ring to them in use, when honing a blade. Lots of things about them that make using one a very pleasant & rewarding experience (great tactile feedback to the fingers as well).


David

 

[sir_mike]

One other characteristic I've noticed with the SiC stones is, they're lighter in weight for their size. I've been 'accumulating' SiC stones lately, from Home Depot and ACE Hardware, and I also picked up an AlOx stone at ACE. When handling them side-by-side, the AlOx is noticeably heavier/denser-feeling, which I found interesting. The SiC stones also have a very cool-sounding 'glassy' ring to them in use, when honing a blade. Lots of things about them that make using one a very pleasant & rewarding experience (great tactile feedback to the fingers as well).


David

I might have been mistaking about HD having the SiC one. After looking at the pick more and focusing on the p/n on the package in the bottom right hand corner it has the number of the left handed picture of yours so I think it is a AlOx one but might be an 8 inch stone as it states "extra large". I might still go down there and check it out in person to verify it though!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I might have been mistaking about HD having the SiC one. After looking at the pick more and focusing on the p/n on the package in the bottom right hand corner it has the number of the left handed picture of yours so I think it is a AlOx one but might be an 8 inch stone as it states "extra large". I might still go down there and check it out in person to verify it though!

Glad you mentioned that. I'd seen that before on HD's site, and it made me scratch my head . It's got to be a mistake on HD's part (wrong picture). The stone in the stores is a 6" x 2" stone, and the correct Norton part# should be 87933. Looks like the pic on HD's site shows the 87934 stone, which is an 8" x 2". BTW, the HD listing, at the top of the product description, correctly references the 6" size and the 'Model # 87933' stone, in contrast to the number seen on the packaging in the product image there, and which is obviously a longer stone in the pic.


David

 

[f250]

Well, I went to Lowe's instead. And I found this. I'm going to try it, It doesn't say if it's SiC or AlOxide. But the grit is right for my needs, and it was $5.

I'm going to go slow and easy with this stone, I'm not used to sharpening with anything under 800 grit for reprofiling. Worst case, I'll find the grit distribution isn't even, so I'll go to HD and find the one y'all are talking about.


I'm going to start with an opinel, bk11, and bk24. So that's a soft carbon steel with a very thin edge, harder carbon steel, and D2. That should give me a good feel for how a coarser stone like this bites and feels.

 

[f250]

The stone I picked up...

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The stone I picked up...

That looks like an aluminum oxide stone. Let us know how it works out. That 60/80 grit is extremely coarse; it looks like a tile rubbing stone, usually reserved for taking rough edges off of tiles/stone used for flooring or whatever. Home Depot carries an equivalent (I have one). The Norton Economy SiC stone should be ~320-grit on it's 'Fine' side, and I don't remember at the moment what the 'Coarse' side of it would be, maybe ~120 or so (I've never used the Coarse side of mine).

AlOx stones made for sharpening can sometimes be pretty good, though a lot of cheap ones (often unbranded) will be horrible, exhibiting issues with clogging or glazing, which really slows them down with more use.


David

 

[f250]

I have made a discovery! I think my issues with inconsistent edges have all been because my edges haven't been completely apexed before I progressed to finer grits.

I tried the stone on an old Mora that had a slightly convexed scandi grind....2 minutes on the coarse stone, and a few more minutes on my medium grit diamond stone, followed by a strop. Best edge I've produced in a long time. It hangs up on paper in a couple of spots where the wire edge wasn't completely removed, but the entire edge has a beautiful toothy edge that just lifts hair off my arm. That knife doesn't need a refined edge, it's my utility knife for leather and woodworking projects. It looks like I just needed to spend a little more time with a coarser stone before working on refining edges!

I can only imagine my results will be much better once I've actually taken care to refine the edge through multiple grits.

The stone is really coarse. Too coarse for most applications. I like it, and am probably going to start using it a lot for initial reprofiling/repairing damaged edges. A bunch of my friends tend to give me their knives to sharpen because they know I can put a decent edge on them. This will be great for that. I'm still going to pick up the Norton stone from HD though. Something this coarse isn't necessary most of the time.

I didn't use it long enough to see any glazing issues, seems like rubbing the stone with my finger will clear the dry swarf very quickly, exposing fresh grit. We will see how it works over time.

 

[sir_mike]

Glad you mentioned that. I'd seen that before on HD's site, and it made me scratch my head . It's got to be a mistake on HD's part (wrong picture). The stone in the stores is a 6" x 2" stone, and the correct Norton part# should be 87933. Looks like the pic on HD's site shows the 87934 stone, which is an 8" x 2". BTW, the HD listing, at the top of the product description, correctly references the 6" size and the 'Model # 87933' stone, in contrast to the number seen on the packaging in the product image there, and which is obviously a longer stone in the pic.


David

Well, that was a waste of my time as once there the only ones they have are the 6x2's (87933), even though there website shows the 87934. I did tell them what I thought about this after driving three miles to get there! I was polite and I just mentioned that the item on their site doesnt match what is actually in their store and they should fix that!

I would like to fix one of those Norton blacker SiC 6x2's to do my own comparison.

 

[f250]

Now this is really exciting. I just produced the same edge on an opinel.

Would you guys agree that I wasn't producing clean apexed grinds since the addition of a coarser stone helped me so much?

 

[HeavyHanded]

Now this is really exciting. I just produced the same edge on an opinel.

Would you guys agree that I wasn't producing clean apexed grinds since the addition of a coarser stone helped me so much?

I would say for certain that was a big part of it.

I would also highly recommend using those stones with oil. Some folks do not, and it will work well but if used fairly heavy or often they will load and glaze. I use all my SiC stones with oil and if anything the surface improves from factory quite a bit and stays very consistent over the life of the stone - IMHO this is very important to getting the most from the stone, deburring with max efficiency etc.

Those SiC stones and the combination SiC in general is the most useful basic sharpening implement one can have.