Tip down Military, deal breaker?

oregon

oregon

Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
5,874
Why carry the Military tip down? http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=19 When you pull it you must rotate it 180 in your hand before opening. I really like the Military otherwise: S30V blade steel, G10 scales, dark clip, large sized and flat grind (almost the perfect knife for me, except for tip down issue). Can I overcome this problem? It doesn't look like the clip is reversible from pics I've seen on the web. I like to use a pull lanyard with the pocket clip for my other EDCs. Any ideas?

All the best,

oregon
 
I don't like tip-up carry for large knives because when I pull it out of my pocket my fingers are all at the wrong end of the knife to be able to open it. I find it much easier/faster/safer to rotate the knife (hold firm with index/thumb, move with other fingers) than to clumsily (?) walk my fingers along the handle.

If I have the knife in my back pocket, it's more like 90 degrees to rotate because I reach stright in with my fingers pointed down to grab it. On some really smooth liner locks I can do the whole rotate and open thing in one movement. But if I am grabbing a knife by the back end of the handle, I can't really do anything with it unless I walk my fingers or flip it open, both of which I don't like to do.

Tip-up works for me on smaller knives like a Delica or Dragonfly, and just saves me the rotating effort because when I pull them out my thumb can reach the opener hole. But with an Endura or other large knife I can't.
 
Tip down works to. You can pull and w/o changing grip, "spydie drop" it right into your palm, open and ready for use. This is only possible with the hole, not with thumbstuds or disks. That's why Terzuola didn't mind having a tip down Starmate.
 
Soooo...If I drop my sparkling new Mili, because of the tip down carry, you will let me break your legs and you won't squawk?

I just looked, again, at the Manix with its reversible clip. Different lock than the Mili but you make the Spidi Drop sound doable

Thanks for the tip. (looking at the Ritter Grip (tip up) and smooth opening)

All the best,

oregon
 
I use the "spydie drop" most of the time when I'm opening one of my Spyderco's that I'm carrying tip down. I've never dropped my Military using this method or any of my other Spyderco's. I just put my thumb and index finger on opposite sides of the thumb hole and squeeze hard enough that my fingers touch and flick my wrist and the handle opens right into my palm ready for use. I have a Manix to and it does open alot better using the spydie drop compared to the Military because of the heavier handle and how smooth the blade opens.
 
Excellent description of the S. Drop maneuver. I get it, finally. So it is the Spiderco hole that makes tip down carry easily and safely workable. This changes my perceived weakness of Spyderco's for my style of carry. Thanks a bunch. May you live for a thousand years. I now have a whole bunch of knives I cannot find a reason not to purchase.

best, oregon
 
There is the additional point that tip-up knives can open more easily in your pocket, causing considerable damage to your body.
 
FullerH said:
There is the additional point that tip-up knives can open more easily in your pocket, causing considerable damage to your body.
Click to expand...

I never understood this argument. I've only had one knife open up in my pocket, and that was the Military. It poked a hole right through my shorts. If the Military was tip down, it would never have opened as the blade would be laying right next to the seam.
 
Isuppose it is all in what you are used to. I can open a tip down knife much faster than a tip up one.
 
I've been EDC'in a Military since they introduced it, LOVE the tip down, I either do the "Spydie drop" or remove it form my pocket with my thumb at the hole and it's open.

Never had an issue dropping it or having to juggle it, its the fastest opening folder I own, best cutter too !!
 
I've carried both and it is true that some just feel better with tip down while others just scream for tip up. Personally I don't buy into the safety issue thing. To me it isn't logical to say the tip up can open easier in the pocket with a tip up carry with the blade butted up against the inside corner of the pocket like it is. I've never once had one open on me in either carry mount position.

If a knife was prone to open in the pocket it is more likely because a detent ball fell out, or was weak or because a back spring broke and not likely to be the fault of the clip.

I have bought some knives that have a weak catch on the detent ball right out of the box and it is feesible that in those with weak holding ability gravity could possibly play a role in how well it stays closed but this would be possible in any carry mode. On the ones that I've ordered with weak catch on the detent I sent them back. I feel they should grab enough to have to physically push the knife open with a good push and that the detent or back spring should keep the blade secure.

I've never run into a problem either way with knives that are made right.

Personally I prefer tip up carry on my knives for a number of reasons. Primarily I like it best for having the smooth back side of the knife body out so your hand can slide deep into your pocket to retrieve something other than your knife without injury to your hand by scrapes or even scratches deep enough to cause bleeding by grooves or the sharp point of the back tang of the blade. I hated the way my Para Military would gouge me on occassion if I was reaching in my pocket without being cautious.
 
The only reason I care about tip up vs. tip down is that tip down knives have the pivot sticking out of my pocket and so the pivot tends to get mucked up a LOT worse than tip up knives. So for an office knife or dress carry I don't really care, but for a harder use knife that I'd be carrying while I'm sawing or digging or otherwise making a big mess I always carry tip up.
 
I EDC the Military. So it's safe the say that I don't have any objections to tip-down configuration per se. I just think that with this specific model, tip-up makes more sense. It would minimize the scratches your hand receives from the grooves on the top of the blade when you reach into your pocket. And it would also allow users to use the lanyard hole, should they choose to.
 
Skirting around the ageless "tip up Vs tip down" issue I'll simply say that if you like everything else about a knife it won't matter, and you will get used to it and find the most convenient way of opening it regardless of clip positioning. I used to be a tip up only person...then I fell in love with a few tip down knives in a row. Older BM CQC-7, Lonewolf T-2 Harsey folder, Microtech Kestrel, and a Spydie Police. I got used to them fairly quickly. Even the ones with studs and disks for opening.

It's all gonna depend on how an individual adapts. Hell, my 70 year old father in law can access his old 3 blade stockman, cut a piece of string or rope, and have it back in his pocket before most guys I know can get thier "tactical folders" unclipped.
 
I say you should give tip down a try. The Military is too good of a knife for you to ignore it simply because it is tip down.

I can actually open a tip down knife slightly faster than a tip up knife, but I've practiced a lot.
 
Tip-down is just as easy for me; you just grab it out of your pocket differently. Instead of reaching in and pulling out from the base like you would a tip-up knife, grab just the part of the knife that sticks out with your thumb and the base of your index finger, and it should be easy enough to open without hardly any repositioning of the knife at all.

I still prefer tip-up myself, but this is due to safety (easier to have a tip-down knife open up when I reach into my pocket to grab something else) and like Ritt, cleanliness. I'm a pizza cook and work with a lot of flour. A tip-down knife would be gunked up to no end. Familiarity isn't an issue with me, I'm used to either. Still, the only tip-down knife I carry with any regularity anymore is my Microtech Scarab, but I don't think that really counts. :D
 
With a quality knife, I am not certain that tip direction makes that much difference in most cases. It boils down to what you are most used to carrying, I suspect. However, that said, I would most strongly urge those with CUDA MAXX knives, either of the 5.5" or the 7" variety, to leave them as Camillus made them, tip-down. With blades as heavy as the blades on these knives, the detente is not always a sure thing.
 
As others have already pointed out here, the basic method of drawing tip-up and tip-down knives is different. Another way I would describe it is: With a tip-down knife, you keep your wrist straight, grab the knife from behind with your thumb near the pivot, and pull the knife straight up and out of your pocket. With a tip-up knife, you turn your wrist over, grab the knife from the front with your thumb deep in the pocket, and rotate the knife as you pull it out.

For awhile, I was a pretty adamant tip-down guy, but now I don’t mind tip-up at all. Everyone has their preferences and reasons for liking one or the other. I think certain clip orientations work better on different knives. For instance: the Persian is tip-up only, but it’s very ergonomic and drilling holes through the bolster for tip-down carry would hurt its looks. The Yojimbo is tip-up only too, but it carries very well that way, IMO. Out of all my Spydies, I think the Military is the easiest to handle with the “drop” opening. Having the Military in a tip-up configuration would probably work well, but you’d be missing out on a very cool (maybe even integral) aspect of its design.
 
Thank you everyone for your feedback. I really appreciate your opinions.

I have more fun and entertainment on this forum than I can describe.

Before I became familiar with this forum I was content using a dull deer antler for my cutlery. Now, however, sky's the limit. Ordered the Mili 2day.

Best,

oregon
 
FullerH said:
With a quality knife, I am not certain that tip direction makes that much difference in most cases. It boils down to what you are most used to carrying, I suspect. However, that said, I would most strongly urge those with CUDA MAXX knives, either of the 5.5" or the 7" variety, to leave them as Camillus made them, tip-down. With blades as heavy as the blades on these knives, the detente is not always a sure thing.
Click to expand...

The only knife that ever opened in my pocket was my tip down CUDA Maxx! It poked two holes in my pants and one in my leg! :eek: I dont know what everybody is talking about: If the knife was tip-up, it wouldnt have happened. When I have some spare cash, I'm going to get it converted.

NB: I dont think tip down would be a problem with a Millie, the main reason my Maxx opened up is the two "horns".
 
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