Tip Up Carry Cuts

PartialSerrations

PartialSerrations

Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
1,106
I just got done reading and some manufacturers won't sell a tip up carry knife with a liner or frame lock because they supposibly got cut. In my opinion, this can only happen if the pocket clip is extremely loose,the knife liner or frame is worn out. excessive inertia opening may cause this as well. I don't believe this for the life of me. Too many great knives are made for tip up carry and have survived the day to day trials we put our knives through. I've handled different makes of knives for years and this has never happened. Even with a worn out liner, it still never happenned. Maybe I'm just lucky or an accident waiting to happen. If anything, I got a cut on my right upper thigh from my Kasper Fighting Folder (tip down carry) wearing a pair of loose shorts. Not saying it's a bad knife though. In a tip up carry, the pants line on the side keeps it from opening unless it's a wave model knife. In a tip down carry, there is room for the knife to move around if your pants are loose or you have an empty pocket. I'm a tip up carry person myself but, I can get by and improvise with a tip down carry folder. With my LCC, when I reach in my pocket the knife blade isn't going to come open unless I tap on the thumbstud. I just don't believe the hype. Anybody care to share their opinions or experiences with me on this. Thanks!!


IF WAR IS HELL, TAKE A BETTER PITCHFORK THAN THE DEVIL
 
I prefer and now only own tip up, thumb hole knives after years of waffling between tip up and tip down mainly b/c they are easier for me to open.

My small sebenza opened twice while I was withdrawing it from my pocket but I wasn't cut. The shorts I was wearing were old and had loose threads on the edge of the pocket that caught the stud so as far as I'm concerned it wasn't the fault of the knife. That being said, I don't want to have to worry about checking my clothing for loose threads everytime I put on some pants.

As far as this happening more with liner or frame locks I will say that my Griptillian (Axis lock) seems to be as easy to open as any of my liner/frame locks ever were. IE, not very much initial resistance.
 
I don't doubt that it can happen, though I do think it's often caused by the clothing more then anything. After carrying both, I much prefer tip up carry. It just feels much more natural for me to draw from that position and I like having a lanyard sticking up to help with the draw.
 
I can add that one design in question (Kershaw Talon w/thumb-stud) lead to what I attribute to a "design-related cut". The tip-up linerlock was set-up with a thumb-stud which liked to grab stuff, and in my case, did so more than once while doing nothing more active than walking. The fateful event for me involved nothing other than regular activity followed by reaching into my back pocket to retrieve the knife when that ultra-pointy semi-wharncliffe blade filetted my fingertip.

The blade was either butter-smooth to open or had to be torqued-down to slow (by tensioning the pivot nut) with almost nothing in-between these settings. After this "Incident" I tried to put more resistance in the opening, thus created a really "Bad" opening knife. Eventually I just stopped carrying it because of concerns over this.

In fairness, I will add that the Talon with Bottle-opener notch didn't share the same problem as the thumb-stud model.
 
I think it's hysteria or something. I've never known anyone personally that cut themselves this way. I never have. I think tip up is much faster to open. I'd be buying more knives if they were tip up (the Dominator for example). I love my buck/mayo, just wish it were tip up.
 
Originally posted by Hawkbill
In fairness, I will add that the Talon with Bottle-opener notch didn't share the same problem as the thumb-stud model.
Click to expand...

I'll agree to this, having had both. I now carry a bottle-opener Talon set-up for Tip-Up, so I can use the bottle-opener like a wave, and I have no problems with it coming open in my pocket, although it is my custom to carry it in the middle of my R-ftong pocket, for a cleaner draw.

I had my Emerson Commander do this to me once, but it was carrying a right-hand model in my left pocket, reached in for a quarter, and came close to slicing my thumb. I just stopped doing that, went back to putting it in my right front, against the rear seam (it needed to be there to wave properly anyway).

I also like Endura/Delicas or Griptilians, with wave-mods, and am prone to carrying such items, they are tip up and I havent yet experianced having one come open in my pocket. The spring pressure from the lock-back or axis-lock seems to keep them in their place.

I generally carry all my folders at the rear seam of my pocket anyway, just a habit I got into carrying an Emerson for almost three years, so its not a concern for me. And like I said, the one I do carry in the middle of my pocket, isnt prone to coming open until I want it to.
 
My Buck Mini Strider consistantly got caught on my jeans and opened. I removed the clip, put knife in a belt sheath: problem solved. I like tip up because I dont have to reposition the knife in order to open it.
 
In recent months, Ford Motor Car Company has been involved in some disputed about the position of the fuel tank in some cars that they sold specifically for use as police cars and taxi cabs, mostly police cars. These cars have a larger-than-normal gas tank and it's been redesigned and repositioned to maximize space in the trunk. This puts the tank closer to the rear bumper. Some people believe that this makes these cars much more likely to explode or catch fire in a rear-end collision. Ford might say, "We've sold tens of thousands of these cars. They're driving around 24/7 many of them. And they don't burst into flames... very often. There's nothing wrong with these cars." But common sense tells us that it's not a good idea to have a plastic gas tank just inches behind a rear bumper that's designed to collapse in a colision, especially when there's a red-hot exhaust system nearby. While it works fine the vast majority of the time, it is an obviously unsafe design.

Those cars are safe IF they don't get rear-ended. They're safe IF any rear-end colision they are involved in isn't very powerful (high speed or a very heavy other vehicle). Cars in general don't get rear-ended very often and when they do it's generally not a very powerful collision. But should police officers and taxi drivers stake their lives on a series of ifs?



As for Tip-Up knife carry:

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: it's not a good idea to fight gravity. In my experience, gravity never fails. It never sleeps. It never misses an opportunity. It's always there, pulling down on that blade. You can say, "IF your knife is properly designed," and "IF your knife is well-made," and "IF your knife is properly adjusted," and "IF your liner isn't worn out," and "IF you aviod excessive inertia (jumping, falling, stomping your feet etc.)," and "IF your position the knife properly in your pocket," but as my sainted father used to say, "If ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we'd have Christmas every day." You shouldn't rely on tomorrow being Christmas. That's only true one day per year. And when what's a risk is slicing your hand open, potentially in a crisis or emergency situation, you shouldn't rely on a series of ifs when a reliable adversary like gravity is involved.
 
I would insist on tip down pocket carry for safety reasons. I prefer safety to convenience. I use a belt sheath all the time, and I still prefer tip down.
 
My 2 cents...

I carry tip-down for safety because the additional speed of a tip-up just doesn't override the risk of a cut for me.

But...with my EDC Kershaw Leek, it's a tip-down knife but with the outer fliptab right there to open. Drawing it, you grab it out of your pocket with your thumb and 3rd finger and the forefinger goes right on the tab while lifting it. You then flick it open immediately.

It is just as fast or faster than a tip-down with, say a, thumbhole.

Anyway...just an option for speed and safety.
 
The steel ain't the greatest here but it's ok. Handled one recently & fit & finish is good. The knife opens like an automatic & is the 1st I've seen to incorporate a SAFETY in the handle to keep accidents from happening. I'd buy one if they'd upgrade their steel. It's tip up carry.
http://www.1sks.com/store/sog-flash-2.html
 
You're telling me that tip up doesn't open up when I'm wearing a pair of jeans where a Native SS somehow manage to get caught, open up and cut holes in my pocket (it could've been my hand).
This stuff can happen. I've also have a tip down knife that tried to open when I reach down for the pocket, and removed my hand.
This stuff can really happen, regardless of lock, or carry method.
 
I can´t understand how a tip-up folder can open when you carry it in your pocket, doesn´t the seam on your trousers keep the blade in the handle?

/Colinz
 
After having my large Sebenza open up slightly in my pocket(yes, I was cut), I no longer carry tip up folders. My Sebenzas both have the clips removed, and I carry the small in a slip pouch and the large in a leather snap belt pouch.
 
Originally posted by Colinz
I can´t understand how a tip-up folder can open when you carry it in your pocket, doesn´t the seam on your trousers keep the blade in the handle?

/Colinz
Click to expand...

The answer is: Gravity!

What if, in the course of the day, sitting down, standing up, walking, running, etc., the knife moves away from the seam? An inch of movement is all it would take.
 
Folks,
I've been around the tactical folder world since Sal Glesser gave me my first[Spyderco/Terzuola Clipit-GREAT KNIFE] one at the BLADESHOW back in the early '90's. I've owned and tested ALOT of these folders because of personal interest, and for my job. I've been cut 3 times by folders in my pocket. 2 were liner locks and 1 was a frame lock. All three were custom, or custom/production level knives...they were well made, not worn out, in spec and properly adjusted. No worn out clips, locks or pivots. All three had the blade become dislodged[opened partially], and because of the frame lock/linerlock design, no spring pressure to pull the blade back closed. When I reached into my pocket they cut me....2 of the instances, pretty badly. The smallest knife, with a blade of only around 2.25"[but RAZOR SHARP] took the top of my middle finger knuckle off! I bled like a stuck pig! While I'm not going to name names, this maker changed all of his knives to tip down after this incident. The other 2 were pretty severe...more puncture type wounds.

Yes, one of these cases involved a right handed folder temporarily carried in the left hand pocket of jeans. Think about it for a minute.....we have ALL done that from time to time. There is no way as a manufacturer we can stop customers from doing that. But the other 2 times the knives were in my right pocket. I guess someone could say I must not have been carrying them "properly" against the seem of my pocket:rolleyes: See above!

Sooooo...why do folks want to carry tip up? Well, appearently they think its faster. I do not buy that tip up is faster than tip down. I have watched Bob Kasper, starting with hands at his sides-off the knife] react to a buzzer, draw a tip down liner lock and stab a target dummy in .73 seconds. And that was a old EDI GENESIS with a deep pocket clip!

So don't tell me one is faster than the other. Personally, since I carry tip down all the time, I'm ALOT faster with a tip down knife.

You may be used to tip up, and more comfortable with tip up, but spend a little practice time with tip down, and you can be as ninja fast as you would like.

And alot safer ;)
 
I have not had one open in my pocket, but I have had a tip-up open when I pulled it from my pocket, on several occasions. This was with a BM mini griptilian. The action is quite smooth, and the thumb stud has a bad habit of catching on the pocket, which causes it to open. Placing a finger on the spine of the blade prevents this, but I have to remember to do it. No serious cuts so far, but it is possible.
 
Had a Spyderco Wegner open (tip up)in my front pocket a few times. Once cutting me in the groin (not far from the pubic hair), once cutting my jeans and once cutting the top of my thumb. I must have been an idiot or a slow learner in those days because I carried it like this for a month or two. Tip down from then on.

I don't think tip up is significantly faster if you practice and knifesturbate with tip down. Even if tip up is faster, I struggle to concieve of a situation where such a rapid draw is going to make the life or death difference - but that's just me and I think even getting in a knife fight wins you the Darwin award.
 
Tip-up may be slightly faster, but we're talking here about a fraction of a second... milliseconds literally. I just don't think that tiny gain is worth the terrible risk it costs.

I've yet to see a single person report, "I was in (insert crisis situation). Fortunately, I had a tip-up knife. If I'd have taken fifty extra milliseconds to open that knife, I'd have been curtains for all of us."

The vast majority of times that the vast majority of us our pocket knives is for ordinary utility purposes. I'm not willing to risk seriously cutting my hand open (my dominate hand too) five times per day 365 days per year just to gain 50mS maybe once in my life.
 
I've been cut by a variety of knives opening in pockets over the last 50 years. A lot of the time it was an automatic that got over stressed by something and popped open. Sometimes it has been lockback knives, even stiff ones like Buck 110's. I have had tip up knives open for indeterminate reasons. Sometimes I think it happens when I get dressed and my pants get jostled. I like to carry my tip-up knife inside my blue jeans watch pocket sticking through the cut out bottom. The watch pocket prevents the blade from opening. With a tip down knife you have gravity working for you, but there is still some risk.
 
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