Tips, techniques and the learning curve...

Joined
Mar 6, 2001
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It seems that in the past few months, there have been a lot of new people joining in on the fun. I thought it might be useful to new and old flippers alike, to hear some general tips on what helped you to learn new tricks. I've been teaching (trying anyhow :)), about half a dozen people on and off, and I'm finding that because I don't think about what I'm doing most of the time, I really have a hard time explaining any of it. So I'd love to hear what helped some of you guys get started. What beginning moves helped you the most? And this question goes out to all the pros too for learning the more complicated tricks. I could use some help myself, 'cause no matter how hard I try, I can't get those damned roll-overs to work right. :mad: :confused:

Fire away guys...
 
Here's a tip: In order to watch Clay's or anyone's freestyle vids in slow-motion, find yourself a copy of Windows Media Player 6.4 (NOT 7.0 or higher) and hit the space bar repeatedly to start-stop-start-stop-etc. Then you can see every move step-by-step.

Then, practice each move until you get it smooth and consistent. Practice, practice, practice.

Watch as many vids as you can too. That helps to see other people's technique and speed and whatnot.

Here's another tip: Practice standing over your bed with your feet hidden under the bed. That way, when you drop your knife, it won't hit the floor and possibly damage your floor, knife, or worse, your foot.
 
Knuckles... cool tip! (WMP 7 blows by the way :barf: ) I just gave it a try, and if you just hold down the space bar (and your key repeat option is set really fast), it does a smooth slow motion. Now I've to go and watch my whole bali-vid library again. :D
 
Yes, it's true what they say.

I've been using Clay's site mostly (at least in the beginning), and DO listen to his advice about not just care about the openings/closings. The other exercizes (sp??) are pretty important too.

I haven't tried any videos (VHS that is) yet, but I really don't reccomend books for learning manipulations. Most of the books are over 10 years old, and have poor images in black/white. It's also not always very easy to understand what the hell they're doing in those pics. ;)

Freestyle vids are also great! They can give you tips on transfers from one move to the other, or from one hand to the other (via flips, twirls, handle changes etc.). Plus, they look very impressing! :) :)
 
For rollovers, I think a heavier-handled bali would work best. I can nail the y2k rollover 60% of the time with my BM43LL, but the only way I can get the "regular" index finger rollover opening to actually open is to snap my arm back and slightly up after grabbing the handle once it comes around. Time to start saving up for a Monarch, I s'pose.

For stuff that helps in the beginning, doing very rapid repeated horizontal varients w/o ending it ("machinegunning," is it called?) will help harden your knuckles a lot.
 
When ever I have tried to teach, I find this method sometimes works over others.
Sitting, latch popped, safe handle across fingers. With thumb, rotate bite handle up until it falls of its own weight. This is a lot easier with a STEEL handle. After it falls, rotate safe handle, observe position of things, then flip up the bite handle. Reverse the process for the close. This is done until the three distinct movemenst are noted. (Three to open, three to close). Then try it without the thumb action. Just flip the bite handle out and up. Reverse to close. Hope I made this clear enough.

One more thing: ALWAYS be aware of which handle you have in your hand. ALWAYS be aware of which stlye latch you have.:)
 
As far as rollovers go, I can't do the y2k very consistently, but regular index finger rollover, I've got down pat. I dunno. Use the inertia of the handle going around your finger. Throw it around your finger almost, just to get the speed going, lift and spin your wrist counter to the motion of the knife so you can close your index finger and thumb on the handles as they come around. That was my first explanation of a knife manipulation. How'd I do?

http://balisong.glx.net/playVideo.php?ID=42 <-- opens with a rollover.
 
As far as rollovers go, I can't do the y2k very consistently, but regular index finger rollover, I've got down pat. I dunno. Use the inertia of the handle going around your finger.

For the life of me I can't do the index finger rollover but the Y2K is cake for me. grrrr....I practice the index finger rollover all the time and still can't ever get it.
 
The way I started was with a double-edged bali.. so the concept of a ricochet was rather odd to me when I discovered it, (although there is a way to ricochet without the edge actually touching you.. it can't be used everywhere.. like in a twirl). I've found I now have a bunch of moves I've never seen anybody else do. Mostly twistings and turnings and things those of you who learned ricocheting earlier might've never picked up since there were more flashy things you could do with less effort.

The few simple moves I've told people to start on are as follows:

Move A)

1. Hold the non-latch handle, forward.
2. Let the other one start to sway away from you.
3. Give the handle you're holding onto a 1/2 twist, (like using a screwdriver).

It's not fast or flashy, but if you dip your hand up and down it does look very smooth.

Move B) - (I believe this is a backhand windmill)

1. Hold backhand (thumb points to the latch end), safe handle.
2. Let the other handle fall away.
3. Let it swing all the way around, and then catch it when it gets back to the top.

Move C) - (I think this is a horizontal basic)

1. Forward, safe handle.
2. Let the other handle swing away.
3. Give the handle a 1/2 twist, but don't try to catch it.
4. It should ricochet off the blade.
5. Bring it back and catch it.

Those three basically give them enough comfort for the different kinds of moves to get started.

The only exercise I tell people to do is to take a pen or pencil, and roll it between their fingers all the way down, and keeping the momentum, all the way back up the other side. A pen isn't heavy enough to strain your fingers from doing that non-stop for a couple hours.. but it builds your finger muscles and improves your fine-motor abilities.

The over-the-bed trick is also a favorite.. because unless you have an expensive blanket, you just can't go wrong. Feet don't get cut, knife doesn't break, and you don't have to lean over as far to pick it back up.

Other than that.. when you're having trouble doing a move smoothly, remember that there are two ways of accomplishing everything. 1) Move the knife around the hand. 2) Move the hand around the knife. Though 2) is limited.. a little goes a long way. Sometimes I find the hardest tricks are made a lot easier by experimenting with moving my hand. Right to left, towards/away from my body, up to down.. whatever. All at different times during the move. A lot of it is taking shortcuts by letting your hand use gravity to accomplish something. Even the position the knife starts in.. upper-left, lower-right.. some things are just easier done in certain places.

In hindsight.. it's often a lot easier to tell.. because by the time you become smooth, you're already moving the hand & the knife together. Try to rest your entire arm along a table or counter-top with only the wrist and hand off the edge and try to perform a trick with your arm static.. a lot harder. So if you're watching videos.. don't just look at what the knife does, look at what the hand and arm does (.. Look at the elbow.. which usually moves a whole lot compared to the hand/wrist to get minor changes to occur..).

Practice makes perfect. If you can't get something done.. try doing something easier until you're better at it.
 
My buddy does that first one Cynake. He taught it to me. Then I taught the backhand version to him. It is very smooth when you get it down. Some can't tell how you did it.:cool:
 
Originally posted by Cynake
...In hindsight.. it's often a lot easier to tell.. because by the time you become smooth, you're already moving the hand & the knife together. Try to rest your entire arm along a table or counter-top with only the wrist and hand off the edge and try to perform a trick with your arm static.. a lot harder. So if you're watching videos.. don't just look at what the knife does, look at what the hand and arm does (.. Look at the elbow.. which usually moves a whole lot compared to the hand/wrist to get minor changes to occur..)...

Well said Cynake. This is one of those few things where it's NOT in all in the wrist. Actually, your post made me realize something about my own manipulating. I suck with my left hand, and watching some vids, I noticed that I never move my damned left elbow or shoulder. Notice the difference between left and right in this video (blurry, but proves Cynake's point well). Man, I need to start movin' that left arm.:(
 
If you have a big mirror, it sometimes help to see how smooth your move is, to watch yourself manipulating.

One more thing I just found out. It doesn't really have anything to do with bettering your performance or anything, it's more like a sweet effect: :D
Try to flip your bali infront of your computer screen, or perhaps the TV, if the screen is bigger (the screen must anyhow be turned ON, of course). That would make the flipping look slow-motioned, or that the balisong is a little 'behind'. ;) Pretty cool.
!WARNING! Be sure you don't flip too close to the screen or drop it into it. That way you could do damage to your monitor/TV/what ever, and I do NOT take any responsibility if that, or anything similar should happen to you.
 
I remember Mr. Wizard explaining that when I was a kid. Don't rember the explaination though.:(
 
Humm... I could ask my physics teacher.. Perhaps he knows...
I would bet it has something to do with the monitor updating, the screen really blaffers, as you may know. If I get a decent answer, I'll post it.
 
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