Titanium Blade Question, focus - Mission MPF

Dark Nemesis

Dark Nemesis

Joined
Mar 20, 1999
Messages
7,497
Hey guys, whats up ? While I am mainly a Benchmade user I have decided that it is time to try a few of the really high end stuff, I am going to purchase a Sifu and a MPF in the next couple of days and wanted to ask a question related to titanium blades.....

From my reading everyones posts and general knowledge of knives and materials I thought that titaniu, while stronger, did not hold an edge as well or as long as steel. Am I wrong ? When I went to the Mission website to get a price, I downloaded the PDF files they had....The first page says that they use titanium because it holds an edge better and longer than steel, Is this just opinion, or am i incorrect in my knowledge of titanium.

Really looking forward to hearing the facts and your experience in using titanium blades. Thanks

Dark Nemesis

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All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!! :)
 
Titanium blades are made mainly for;
1. Desktop Commandos who are willing to pay for what they don´t understand.
2. Special military units who need non-magnetic equipment (mine-clearing etc).

Benchmade even goes so far as to say that their (now discontinued) Ti-bladed Emerson wasn´t ment to be used as a knife. They will not hold an edge and are harder to sharpen.
If you are going to cut anything with your knifes, then I suggest you put the extra $ in a super quality steel instead. Or buy a true high end custom folder ($400 & up).
 
Did Mission really say titanium holds an edge better than steel??? I think there must be some misunderstanding here ... maybe Rick will come in and clarify it, or maybe I'll find time to download that pdf myself and see what I make of it.

The beta titanium alloy Mission uses holds an edge better than other titanium alloys. Reports vary from "comparable to 440A" to "worse than the 425 they make SAKs out of." I suspect it depends on what you're cutting.

Titanium blades are specialized ... if you don't have a specific need for its advantages, if you've just decided to spend a little more money and get a better knife ... titanium is not the way to go. If you're just looking for "better" in general, look at high-end steels and possibly at talonite.



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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
 
DN, I'll first disagree about the usefullness of the MPF...it's definately a more specific-oriented folder. I purchased mine to use in the humid jungle environs between Ecuador and Peru, not just for its corrosion resistance, but also for in non-magnetic characteristics (the DMZ between the two countries are littered with APERS mines), I never did put it to the test but it was a psychological factor to help justify the cost
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!

If your regularily sharpen and maintain your knives, you'd never have any major problems with edge holding. I will concede that it's much tougher than conventional blade materials. We removed a sandbag wall and I must have slashed thru 40-50 sand bags with sand...it was definatly dull, but with a DMT sharpener, it sharpened up rather quickly.

For ordinary useage the "Sebenza-sytle" lock and corrosion resistance are its greatest attributes. Yes I do carry this knife on a daily basis for work (military), but I also carry a couple of additional folders for the majority of utility work. I would equate the sharpness feeling to the way an M2 HSS blade feels when fully sharened...and is capable of shaving hair/cleanly slicing paper; but, again you must be prepared to sharpen often if you use it often.

Depending on your useage for the knife, its lock and corrosion-resistance benefits, the cost and marginal edge-retention downfalls, it may only be the WOW factor to favor its purchase
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Hope this helps

Dave
 
Dark :

When I went to the Mission website to get a price, I downloaded the PDF files they had....The first page says that they use titanium because it holds an edge better and longer than steel
Click to expand...

Mission's Ti is very corrosion resistant and supposed to be tougher than most tool steels as usually tempered for blades and take a larger bend before deforming. These properties could easily give it better edge holding in certain applications.

-Cliff
 
Hmmm...it seems that it has definately made a good impression on people. Which of the following would you suggest as an everyday hard use folder:

1. Microtech Socom
2. Rekat Sifu
3. Mission MPF
4. Large Sebenza

Thanks again

Dark Nemesis
 
Oh I forgot to ask....According to the .PDF files on their site, the A2 versions should be available by now, but they are not listed on the main site. Are the A2 blades available does anyone know ?

Dark Nemesis

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All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!! :)
 
dp; I was under the impression that nearly all antipersonnel mines were pressure activated. Antivehicle mines and antiship mines are magnetically triggered.

I would be very careful poking for mines. Some have chips which have a antitampering feature, so moving it slightly will set it off.

Stay safe, Walt
 
Mr. Welch, you are very correct! However, could I justify the purchase of $300+ knife for mine probing if they were known to be only small "tuna-can" size plastic anit-personnel mines? Actually it was intended for a Bosnia tour that never panned out, but my excursion to Ecuador/Peru turned out to be much more desireable (and allowed me to test a variety of knives in a humid environ).

BTW, we went thru a mini 3-day jungle survival school, hosted by some Ecuadorian jungle experts. I had previously (and unfortunately) witness the results of what these small 2-3 ounce mines could do...shrapnel cuts all over one's body and a missing foot. We did a demo with one of these small mines, dropped a 80 kilo (165+ lb) log onto the pressure activated mine...it blew it to shreds!

No, the MPF wasn't relevent in this theater, but it's a great folder for other uses. From my old enlisted infantry days, I still think I'd prefer the 15-20" stick probe. I honestly couldn't imagine getting that close (the reach of the MPF) to any type of mine!

Just don't tell my wife that, she'd find an excuse to spend $300+ on get-even shopping spree
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Dave
 
Pelle, it does not sound like you have ever own an MPF. The MPF and the Benchmade 970ST will maintain their edge longer than you think. I have more custom knives currently on order than most people buy in their life time, but my most often use folder and fixed blade is still the MPF and the MPK. I carry the 970ST in my boot most of the time. I am not a military personnel by definition but I do support them on a regular basis. If you want a low maintenance folder then it is hard to beat a MPF.

Dark Nemesis, please define hard use for a folder.

I am scheduled for a vacation in Vietnam in mid April of this year. I will be visiting my relatives that live right on the Mekong delta (i.e. I will be spending a lot of time near and in the water). More than likely I will be doing a lot of cutting and chopping with the cutlery that I will bring along. Currently, my choices are Mission MPF, MPK, Talonite Cetan from Rob Simonich, Basic 9, Spyderwrench, and the Wave.
 
Nam Viet Vo:

Thats true, I guess "Hard Use" Does vary from person to person. I am most likely going to start a new job in a month or so that will be taking me around the world installing new network servers for the Military. My daily tasks will probably included tearing down 20-30 "180lbs rated" carboard server boxes, and cutting segments of 50'-150' of Category 5 cable. I could use a pair of snips but I find a knife with a good edge makes it a faster job. Since I will be crimping the ends I can use snips to "re-do" the fine edges.

I have been using the BM975 for a while and find that it does an excellent job as long as I re-sharpen the edge every other day or so. I dont mind that at all, just want to make sure my new knife performs atleast as well.

Dark Nemesis

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All the knives in the world go round and round, round and round, round and round...DAMN, one of them took my wallet !!! :)
 
NamViet Vo--
How do you compare your Mission knives with David Boye's BDS and BDC knives for cutting, edge holding, and durability? Living in Arizona, thought you might have used some of David's knives. Thanks--Will.
 
Hello,

I have heard nothing but good stuff about MISSON KNIVES,, there Titanium BETA alloy is suppose to be top Notch!! I think for its intended Purpose there titanium blades would work Excellent.

My .02

See ya,,, Allen Blade
 
Will York, David Boye's BDS and BDC knives will hold its edge longer than the MPF no doubt. But if you are doing any prying or twisting then the MPF is top. I also did not like the handle on the BDS or BDC.

Dark Nemesis, I have done what you have described as your intended purpose with the MPF. You should not have any problem. Make sure you bring along a diamond sharpener, a rod type is preferred.
 
Walt - there's mines out there for every application. It's just a matter of changing out the fusing mechanism on some, or changing the programming in others... There are mines out there that can count your footsteps for that matter. Don't underestimate the capabilities of a landmine. The Crossbow / Cyclops system could be programmed for all sorts of neat things... like motion sensing and automated guard duty. The Italians have mines that cost upwards of $50,000 a pop. We've had mines in our inventory since the early 80's that when they land they deploy filaments (like spyderwebs), that cause the mine to explode when they are disturbed. FASTCAM, VOLCANO, MOPMS, Flipper, GEMMS, and several other systems are quite sophisticated indeed ('scuse me if I don't get the acronyms right, I don't have my FM's in front of me).

Just MHO, but the only people who should be out there probing for mines is EOD and Combat Engineers.... and even then I'd rather leave it for EOD. SOP for all ordnance is to treat it like it's got the most dangerous fusing system out there until it's proven otherwise - so you take all the neccessary magnetic and vibration cautions.

Nam brings up a good point - if you use a Ti knife, make sure you use a non-magnetic diamond sharpener on it to prevent magnetic contamination. Don't use the same sharpener on your steel knives...
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Spark

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[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 02-21-2000).]
 
NamViet Vo--Could you describe any damage or failures you have experienced with David Boye knives?
 
Will, my wife broke a Boye's blade while doing a little light prying (boning an elk). The blade did stay sharp for quite a while.
 
NamViet--The blade that broke--do you recall whether it was a folder, a kitchen knife, a hunter or a Basic model? 440C or Cobalt? Hollow or flat ground? Did you contact David about it? Any response? Thank you--Will
 
NamViet Vo, I have no experience with the MPF, only with the BM970ST. My point is that I find it silly to pay the extra $ for titanium. Ti is (as you probably know) very hard to grind and that along with the high price for the metal itself equals a high ELU price. I think it is wiser for most applications to put the extra $ on a high quality steel (CPM420/440V, Talonite, M2 etc). Poking around for mines is pretty far from most ELUs daily tasks an better be left for those qualified with the proper equipment.
Thoughts; DN, have a look at www.knifeart.com and you´ll find a lot of interesting handmade (more or less) blades for approx the same $ as the Mission MPF.
Allen Elishewitz (who designed the MPF) have some very interesting models for around $400. Pat Crawford also offers nice blades in the same price category. Add $50 and you can have a go at the Darrel Ralph Apogees.
Go Custom!!!
 
The MPF is a good knife. Is it the right knife for you? That depends on what you want to use if for and what you expect it to do for you.

If the choice were between a Sebenza and an MPF, I would expect most non-military types to find the Sebenza to offer a better set of qualities for their "normal" use while the soldiers would in general opt for an MPF.

Stay Sharp,
Sid
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CRK and Mission dealer
 
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