Titanium Millie vs CRK Sebenza

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Vegas Blade

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This one should encourage some discussion. I propose that the Spyderco Smooth Military is a neck to neck equal to the Sebbie, maybe better. For the price, one could argue that it's better. Let's consider: both full titanium handle slabs, both S30V steel (although the new Sebbie is S35VN, which the jury may still be out on whether it's better), both FFG slicers, both very smooth. Now on the surface they seem pretty neck and neck. However, here's where I think the Millie pulls ahead: price. The Millie can be purchased around $190-250. The Sebbie is easily $400-450. For the price you can buy 2 Millie's. a user and a safe queen. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a hater of CRK, I have a Sebbie, and I'm a big fan. That said, it isn't 2x the knife. Also, and this is very important, Spyderco runs their S30V harder than CRK. The difference in Rc is probably enough to make Spyderco's S30V superior. So what do you all think? Spyderco has superior Rc on their steel and it is half the price. Comments??
 
Vegas Blade said:
This one should encourage some discussion. I propose that the Spyderco Smooth Military is a neck to neck equal to the Sebbie, maybe better. For the price, one could argue that it's better. Let's consider: both full titanium handle slabs, both S30V steel (although the new Sebbie is S35VN, which the jury may still be out on whether it's better), both FFG slicers, both very smooth. Now on the surface they seem pretty neck and neck. However, here's where I think the Millie pulls ahead: price. The Millie can be purchased around $190-250. The Sebbie is easily $400-450. For the price you can buy 2 Millie's. a user and a safe queen. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a hater of CRK, I have a Sebbie, and I'm a big fan. That said, it isn't 2x the knife. Also, and this is very important, Spyderco runs their S30V harder than CRK. The difference in Rc is probably enough to make Spyderco's S30V superior. So what do you all think? Spyderco has superior Rc on their steel and it is half the price. Comments??
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C'mon... :rolleyes: Sal himself has said that Spyderco can't, and doesn't try, to do what CRK does with the Sebenza. They're different knives, and they're both great. We don't need to try to rank them.
 
I think you have to consider the Military is much larger and the Seb can get a spa treatment. Those two facts might make someone choose one over the other
 
If the Ti Millie had a bushing pivot, tolerances to make that work, anodized standoffs, multi position clip with filler blank, S35VN, and a few other gizmos that the Sebenza offers, then BANG, we now have a $400+ Millie that honestly I wouldn't use in fear of messing it up.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'd rather have my $200 user.
 
JNewell, I'm just having fun here, encouraging some thought. This whole forum would shrivel up and die I we didn't "compare" stuff. This is a place for conversation and thought, that's what we're doing here. Keep it light man. :-)

Barman, my Sebbie is only set for the clip one way, right hand, tip up. There is no filler tab, and no way to change the clip. Also, no standoffs, it sounds like you are referring to a Hinderer Sir.
 
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The Sebenza is not FFG, there is certainly a filler tab available if you want to remove the clip, and that blue standoff looking thing next to the lanyard hole is anodized...and could be called a standoff.

As nice as the Military may be, the tolerances just are not there.
 
Barabus said:
I think you have to consider the Military is much larger and the Seb can get a spa treatment. Those two facts might make someone choose one over the other
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Spa treatment is not free so that's something else to consider. Unless they have changed on me, the blade refinish is $30 and the handle refinish is $30 plus $15 shipping. It adds up. Besides, it would be cheaper in the long run to buy another Military than to pay for the spa treatment on top of what you have already spent on the Sebenza. You would also have to consider the wait time when your knife is in service.

How important is tolerance in a knife when it doesn't have blade play in any direction while the deployment is smooth and fast? Sure it may require a little bit more time to find the sweet spot on the pivot to find the balance between centering and free of play then loctite it down, but I run into the same issue with my Zaan and 25. I do remember having a harder time reassembling my 21 because of the washer would often get under the bushing and the only way to check is to screw everything back together.

I love Spyderco for offering the quality of a high production knife at a much more affordable prices. I have enjoyed my Techno far more than I have ever did with my Small 21 Insingo and the best part is that it's half the price.
 
They are completely different, I don't really see why the comparison either. I own both but they don't look the same, have the same blade shape, the same grind, the same handle shape, the construction is different one has a thumb hole the other thumb stud. They are both Titanium knives I guess but that comparison could include a lot more knives than these two.
 
I think that your argument is based on something that isn't necessarily true - that the Titanium Military is half the price. The MSRP of the Titanium Spyderco Military is $379.99. Granted, you can get them cheaper, but that's only because of production quantity and the distribution network that most production knives fall in to (being in this category alone affects the brand perception of a manufacturer and availability, which is correlated strongly to resale value and the strength of a secondary market). With a handful of distributor level dealers setting up direct sales online, and other dealers taking a smaller markup due to the increased competition, you're seeing a much smaller markup on Spydercos and other brands that are plugged in to more distributors. The fact that CRK's production limits and partnerships doesn't let these companies wreak havoc on dealer markup is not only going to help guarantee investment value, but it's going to create a much stronger secondary market for used knives. An especially prized unique design on a Sebenza can raise the resale value automatically as well, which isn't even a consideration with full production knives.

It's great that you can get Spydercos for such a great deal (This thread has actually convinced me to pick one up soon - the exact Titanium Military you mentioned), but the low end price you're basing this on is undercutting most distributor pricing when you factor in shipping and sales tax.

I can actually use a similar method of thinking and say that CRK Sebenzas are cheaper than the Titanium Military. You will pay $380 if you order the Military direct from Spyderco, and a smaller Sebenza 21 can be found new for $350 at a particular large dealer online. Of course this isn't a fair assessment, but if you want to compare apples to apples you probably need to use MSRP, as its set by the manufacturer. Of course, that's good for a direct quality review, but it isn't very applicable to consumer value (the best way to judge value would be to take prices from a dealer that sells both models - and in that case you're looking at $240 for the Military because all the dealers that even have CRK knives will usually use a 75% pricing scheme on production knives). The problem with using bargain basement prices on production knives is the dealers that actually sell knives at those prices - they aren't always reputable, you are more likely to have problems with your purchase, and some of them do not even have the knives in stock - they order them as orders come in. When all the variables are considered, it's clear that even though the knives use similar materials and would be of the same class, they aren't ripe for a direct comparison. To make it more convoluted, most sentiment will be strongly tied to brand loyalties, and not objective comparison on quality, value, resale value, and other variables.
 
DRK said:
They are completely different, I don't really see why the comparison either. I own both but they don't look the same, have the same blade shape, the same grind, the same handle shape, the construction is different one has a thumb hole the other thumb stud. They are both Titanium knives I guess but that comparison could include a lot more knives than these two.
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They have things in common and they are knives. It's ok to compare them.
 
Vegas Blade said:
This one should encourage some discussion. I propose that the Spyderco Smooth Military is a neck to neck equal to the Sebbie, maybe better. For the price, one could argue that it's better. Let's consider: both full titanium handle slabs, both S30V steel (although the new Sebbie is S35VN, which the jury may still be out on whether it's better), both FFG slicers, both very smooth. Now on the surface they seem pretty neck and neck. However, here's where I think the Millie pulls ahead: price. The Millie can be purchased around $190-250. The Sebbie is easily $400-450. For the price you can buy 2 Millie's. a user and a safe queen. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a hater of CRK, I have a Sebbie, and I'm a big fan. That said, it isn't 2x the knife. Also, and this is very important, Spyderco runs their S30V harder than CRK. The difference in Rc is probably enough to make Spyderco's S30V superior. So what do you all think? Spyderco has superior Rc on their steel and it is half the price. Comments??
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By your logic, the Spyderco Sage 2/Bradley Alias is even better because it offers the same materials for even cheaper than the Military and especially the Sebenza? Is the Military 2x the knife as the Sage 2? Is the Sebenza 4x the knife as the Sage 2?

Just because its got the same materials does not make it equal...one could argue the Military has an awful blade to handle ratio compared to the sebenza. It also lacks the tolerances and finishing touches (rounded spine, etc) the Sebenza has. It lacks the ability for an easy take down and clean up. It lacks the ability to go without loctite.

Sure, in one cutting session the Military will serve you just as well as the Sebenza. But so would a Sage 2. The same way a Prius and an Aventador will both get you from A to B, and heck you'd save quite a bit with the Prius, on initial cost, gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. But at the end of the day I know which one I'd rather own. (:
 
Fanglekai said:
They have things in common and they are knives. It's ok to compare them.
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I guess, to me saying this one is better value than that one is hard when they are so different as I said the blade shape isn't the same, grind, ergos, construction. The Ti mille is much larger and heavier, its not exactly like comparing a Hinderer xm18 to ZT0550. JMO though I am sure others see it differently.
 
The Ti military is a great knife...but no sebenza.

I hate grey turds and like my knives to be "pretty" if they are expensive. Why have grey Ti when it can change into such pretty colors? Spyderco offers nothing even close to decorated sebenzas, the custom graphic sebenzas, the engraved sebenzas, the inlaid sebenzas, the startac sebenza and the carbon fiber sebenza.

I use my knives and I don't sell them. If you must compare grey turds, then the ability to get repair parts and the spa treatment for any CRK knife no matter how old it is, gives the lead to the sebenza.
 
brownshoe said:
The Ti military is a great knife...but no sebenza.

I hate grey turds and like my knives to be "pretty" if they are expensive. Why have grey Ti when it can change into such pretty colors? Spyderco offers nothing even close to decorated sebenzas, the custom graphic sebenzas, the engraved sebenzas, the inlaid sebenzas, the startac sebenza and the carbon fiber sebenza.

I use my knives and I don't sell them. If you must compare grey turds, then the ability to get repair parts and the spa treatment for any CRK knife no matter how old it is, gives the lead to the sebenza.
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M4 and fluted millie would be up there. :)

I have a fluted millie inbound and a CRK in my pocket.

The CRK is going to be harder to make, The process to make a sebenza is very precise . Basically, if a millies internals were made the same as a CRK and to the precision of a CRK, then it would cost the same as a CRK. with that, I don't mind tweaking my knife to hit a sweet spot. Its nice to know I have an extremely precise knife in my pocket, but once you have a Millie together so the blade falls shut with out play , then the differences on the outside go away. They will be close, if not equal in finish,

My opinion is that the Taichung framelocks are all that a CRK is, but without the complex internals. Everything is finished just as good, or very close. The internals,tedious processes and company size determine the cost the most.
 
I dunno. I frankly don't see why anyone would buy the Ti millie when the G10 is offered at an even lower price. I think a lot of people confuse the word "better" with the word "nicer" when comparing high end knives.
 
Shotgun said:
I dunno. I frankly don't see why anyone would buy the Ti millie when the G10 is offered at an even lower price. I think a lot of people confuse the word "better" with the word "nicer" when comparing high end knives.
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That's all about personal taste though. I would pay much more for smooth metal handles over G10 handles, I would even prefer aluminum. I think it would be both "better" and "nicer" than G10 :)
 
bpeezer said:
That's all about personal taste though. I would pay much more for smooth metal handles over G10 handles, I would even prefer aluminum. I think it would be both "better" and "nicer" than G10 :)
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True but the G10 offers functionality in that it makes the knife lighter and also has texture for a good grip. But yeah most things past something like an Opinel is just personal taste.
 
I guess it boils down to personal taste. I am a Spydie freak, and I've owned many PM2's and Military's in all kinds of super-steels. I am down to ONE PM2, and I plan to gift that to a gd-kid. I've owned but never carried the Spydies; I look at them and sell/trade.
OTOH, I have owned many Sebbies and several Umnumzaans, and I'm just as big a believer in CRK. I've carried a large Sebbie or Zaan for several yrs as my EDC with zero regrets. IMO, there is no finer production knife. I have also owned several sizes (blade-length and blade-grind types) of XM-18's, and they're much too heavy-duty for my casual use. I sold them quickly.
Millies are great, but they are NOT CRK's, nor do they pretend to be equivalent. Just different.
 
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