To. Al. Mar Knives Rep; Part II

J

J. D. Martin

Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Messages
59
(two) AMK mostly uses that linen stuff, Micarta, for handle material...a little G-10, maybe... I wish you would test in one of your marketing survey, how do customers feel about natural woods. (No, not stabilized wood. Genuine exotic woods. Forget north american lightweights, of course. You DO use cocobolo on one knife. Cocobolo's great, very dense, lot of figure, bright colors. Pretty much the same for desert ironwood, snakewood, thuya burl, amboyna burl, lignum vitae, African blackwood. (Of course, um, lignum vitae is not much figure, but at 83 lb per cu. ft,...how often can you say "This wood is the hardest, densest, heaviest wood ON THE PLANET. PERIOD." So could somebody say African
blackwood ( more tractable, wont check, than ebony)---of course, it has no figure. But---it's BLACK__BLACK ---black as a dinosaur juice tarpit greasemine, and tough, fine-grained: so glossy, glassy, satin texture.
Myself, if I take the time and effort to build a knife: I dont use some plasticized, artificial, Dow Chemical product. When I look at the couple dozen knives me and my dad have made, right away, I look at the handles, the wood,...all those kinds, from around the world. And I think they're very beautiful.
A return to natural woods is just my hobbyhorse/pet rant, and I shouldnt have subjected you to it. My apologies. ---- JDM
 
Why would they use wood?

Micarta/G-10 are extremely durable and not subject to the same problems wood is in harsh environments. In addition, it doesn't show wear as badly, and I'm guessing that no wood is as "grippy" as G-10 or micarta can be under similar conditions. I would also think that it would drive prices up greatly, to no benefit other than making working knives "look good". Just my opinion.
 
I have a Al Mar Eagle Talon with black titanwood scales. It's very nice looking but if I were going to carry one everyday I'd get a micarta version.:)
 
I wrote a LONG (easily my longest) reply to Mr. Sph3ric Pyramid, but then it got lost in the system; when done, a msg came on---apparently warning that I had USED TOO MANY SMILIES!!! Of course I was going to take them ALL out (maybe leave one with sunglases to show I'm cool) but , so far, I've found this system is very imperfect for getting back to something you just wrote.
So I lost it. I think I took 90 mins or two hours. all for nothing. Now I dont want to spend much time on posts since they may well come to naught.

Upset User of Inflexible System,

J. D.
 
Martin;

Have you considered contacting Al Mar Knives directly with your 'concerns'?

Also, have you considered rehandling your knife yourself, using the materials that you want?

As for the system being 'flexible', it is to a certain point. The error message you received indicated that you used too many smilies, and that your message length was too long.

Perhaps you might be a little more 'flexible' yourself.
 
Originally posted by J. D. Martin
...I've found this system is very imperfect for getting back to something you just wrote.
So I lost it. I think I took 90 mins or two hours. all for nothing. Now I dont want to spend much time on posts since they may well come to naught.

Upset User of Inflexible System,

J. D.
Click to expand...

Next time you write a long post, highlight and then right click on the highlighted area and click on copy. That way instead of typing everything again you can just paste your old reply in and edit it as needed. It's really that simple.
 
Oh I think the densest and hardest wood are the wood logs that are being hauled up at Lake Michigan or one of the great lakes. Apparently they were left behind by one of the earliest loggers around the area that cut these logs that are very old.
That stuff is probably very expensive.
And yeah, you should voice that kind of genuine suggestion to Al Mar instead of here. They'd probably listen faster.
 
>>>>I cdv SWORE I wrote 2 pp. in response bef the screen crash and my draft disappeared. I'll nvrthlss pick up where I left off:

Natural/'exotic' {virtually none are north American -- almost none are hard/dense enuf to use for knife handles, eliminating even the 'King of Carving Woods,' black walnut (= 35-42 lbs per cu ft). (The hardest/densest/heaviest of all woods, lignum vitae, is 83 lbs per cu ft. (E.g., for woodcarving, I have a big and a real big lignum vitae mallet for striking the carving chisel; l.v. makes a great hammer. Oil-filled.
What was I saying. I get carried away ab exotic wood. The respondents who have criticized my ringing endorsement of exotic woods as handle scales have faulted in on the following grounds which are adduced in favor of stabilized woods. K & G catalog, p. 24:
"Stabilized woods hv bn impregnated w/ monomers and acrylics to produce a dimensionally stable wood. Some advantages of stablizaed wood are tt thy minimize or totally eliminate: (i) shrinking
(ii) expanding (iii) will not absorb water (iv) raised grain when sanded (v) cracking (vi) warping (vii) impervious to oils (viii) take a very high polish."

There, under (i) to (viii), you find the principal considerations meant to discourage use of natural woods, to be supplanted by treated woods.

I have just a little more to say on this subject so I will try to start a new thread.

--- J. D.
 
I've never heard of a post being rejected for too many smileys before -- there must have been hundreds of them??? :eek:

IMHO copying a post to your clipboard is good enough backup for short posts, but the trouble with that is if your computer crashes you lose the clipboard too. If I spend more than a few minutes writing a post I do it in a word processor that automatically saves every five minutes. That lets you use all the bells and whistles of a full-featured word processor, too, macros, spell-check, redefined keyboard, whatever....
 
If you found Part One to be a load of verbose circumlocutious blather if I were you I wd skip the below; it's not likely to improve.
Our informant re the tyrannosauruswood found in Michigan ventured his suspicion that the handleblocks for natural wood "must be very expensive." In part One, referring to the 2004 Knife $ Gun catalog, I quoted the prices for blocks and scales for the, by FAR most, expensive woods: desert ironwood, ebony, cocobolo,pink ivory, snakewood, and thuya burl. (I pointed out how the MAKING of a knife is SO labor-intensive, to me it seems you are selling yourself short if you do not make a commensurate level of investment in materials.)
If you are making a custom knife, I would never use for the blade
a tractor leaf 'spring steel' or tool steel; I'm going to use custom-grade ATS-34 or 440C or CM154, e.g. I'm putting a LOTTA TIME into this; I'm making this for the ages; my grandkid, HIS kid, may own this knife (if I dont sell it. for a high price, to a collector.]
K & G's stabilized woods are quoted as in the "range of $10 to $35, depending on size and quality."*** That's the most typical price range for the Top-5 natural woods, too. The K & G blurb re SW's incorporates the charges against natural woods: shrinking, expanding, water-absorbent, inconsistent grain, cracking, warping,
oils-absorbent, (some) do not take very hi polish.

I will say, even were these claims against natural wood true; and even if it were logical to go to stabilized woods, to avoid these hazards; it still is not clear to me why a maker leaves the natural beauty wood has, even if stablized, had goes on to extremes, artificial googunk like micarta ("made by Westinghouse"), or fiber and epoxy materials. Damn, the traits sought here are not the same as a Stealth fighter skin. G-10 (and I've used it, and it is a neat material{tho in appearance dull, monotonous, uninteresting, humdrum, likethat} and similar plastic or linin laminates have a place --- a limited place -- in knifemaking.) As somebody in a Forum quoted, "Life is too short to carry an ugly knife."

In fact, however, I dont think, or it is my conjecture, that the problems with crackingetcetc enumerated above are minimal, in the case of the hard/DENSE/heavy natural woods like lignum vitae, desert ironwood, cocobolo, snakewood, et al. I've never had a problem. Of course, I'm rarely out spelunking, climbing the Himalayas, deep-sea fishing, etc.---if I DID find myself devoting serious time to such pursuits, I would get a G-10 or micarta folder or sheath knife right away.

Sorry to have taken so much space on what is probably just my private hobbyhorse, and a bore to others.

---- J. D.
***Stabilized woods: Bird''s-eye Maple; Black ash Burl; California Buckeye Burl; Maple Burl; Redwood; Mesquite;etc. dense
 
Actually, snakewood is notorious for checking and cracking.

My favorite wood for handle materials is african blackwood. This stuff is really hard (right up there with lignum vitae). It takes a great polish and doesn't need to be stabilized.

For the most part I agree that wood makes for a nicer handle than synthetics, but canvas Micarta can look pretty darn nice on some knives. I don't especially like G-10, carbon fiber or any of the other synthetics, but I do like Micarta on the right knife.
 
Originally posted by Keith Montgomery


For the most part I agree that wood makes for a nicer handle than synthetics, but canvas Micarta can look pretty darn nice on some knives. I don't especially like G-10, carbon fiber or any of the other synthetics, but I do like Micarta on the right knife.
Click to expand...

I have a Spyderco/Bob Lum fixed blade that is handled in micarta, and purchased it because I PREFER all the synthetic stuff over wood, and . While I am in no way NEAR Keith Montgomery's level of collecting or knowledge(or anyone's on this thread), I admire the craftsmanship and care put into such knives like the ones in his avatars or all the beautiful handmades many people collect and are proud of. It is a matter of one's personal taste and style when shopping for, comissioning, or making knives. I particulary seek-out knives that are handled in black(synthetic) or silver/gray-type metal, as I have never SEEN or HELD a wood handled knife that lept out at me. Wood tends to really turn me off to a knife no matter how well I like the overall design, but that is just my personal taste. I admire Al Mar Knives because they strike me as "Classy" without sacrificing the overall "Tactical" motif that I associate with pocket-clipped knives, etc.:) When I finally settle on a maker for my first custom knife, I will have it handled in some black, synthetic, easily replaceable material that will not deteriorate due to moisture, temperature or time, so that my children's children's CHILDREN'S children will have it to admire and use. I feel you though on the steel issue:) I am also relatively young, partially grew up in tropical settings, hot climates:( and the city.;)
 
When Al Mar Knives was owned/operated by Al Mar the line was quite expansive and Al enjoyed presenting a nice variety of handle materials (laminated woods, micarta, zytel, and special edition or runs of the various woods discussed, particularly rosewood on his wonderful Eagle folder).

AMK today is a much smaller firm and the line is equally more constrained. I'd opine the selection of handle/grip materials is more an economic consideration than anything else. I've looked at the current inventory and for what it offers it is handsome, fairly priced, and certainly well made.

I recently purchased a Muela fixed blade (4" blade) with hardwood grip panels and double stitched leather pouch sheath ($45.00 retail). Superb design for use intended; very clean manufacturing; sharp as wished for out of the box; and the grip work is simple/clean and very comfortable. The knife is handsome and I enjoy a well done wood grip on certain blades. Stabilized woods are wonderful, long lasting, provide that "warm" feel the synthetics cannot, and last a very long time if - like any piece of good equipment - they are cared for.

Seeing Kit Carson's recent post I would offer I carry a CRK&T M16 (the original design and size) on a daily basis, the knife a gift from a close friend who carried it throughout former soviet Georgia, Bosnia, and Kosovo. Great knife in all respects. Have looked the CRK&T M16 line over closely and can't see where a better, well designed, well manufactured, fairly priced collection of quality working folders from the tactical folder venue could be any better. The large tanto point M16 in black is a very nice CQB tac-folder and available for $69 at the PX. My second tour in Baghdad (which I just returned from) saw one of my PSD team leaders carrying the aforementioned CRK&T M16 (Black Tanto, or SF as they title it), which he got at the PX at the Coalition Provisional Authority compound in Baghdad. He later gave the knife to his Kurd Pesh Merga bodyguard before leaving country.

Nice work, Kit :)

As I have written a fair amount on this subject, and now used but one smiley face, I will close.

GW
 
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