To get a grip

S

Skogen

Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
4
Hej

I hear finger choil is about control. For me it’s about balance point.

I hear thumb on spine is about control. For me the thumb joint is a weak joint for pressure. Hammer grip is for pressure. Thumb on spine on jimping is for forward motion.

And when the finger choil is a finger groove it feels great with thumb on spine, but with a finger groove a hammer grip is worthless because the index finger will have no support.

And to come clean, I’m from Sweden, land of Mora and non self defence. I love knives, mostly american knives. But I some times wonder what in american ”outdoor knife” designs that is compromise to self defence.

With all honest do respect
Johan
 
Last edited:
I'm also European but I can legally carry a knife, and eventually use one for slef defense if it ever comes to that (but I hope it won't).

Now, finger choils and grooves are great, as long as you don't plan to use your blade in reverse or ice pick grip.
And having a handle which priviledges just one way of gripping the knife that much just can't be a good thing, not even for self defense.

So, this is where hand guard comes in.
I have just 2 knives. Recon Tanto and Drop Forged Hunter. They both offer really good grip, in extended position for stabbing, hammer grip or ice pick or reversed grip. They have no finger grooves or choils and yet your hand is just as safe, if not even safer from slipping on blade since they both have a guard.

Also, I'd never buy a Puukko since it has no guard or some Moras since their handles are pretty round, meaning they could roll in my hand if I use them to chop and my hands are wet or slippery.
 
Last edited:
Good point Smiling, I agree!
I like designated tools as well as multi use tools, and just mean that a trade off should be worth its cost.
 
Last edited:
Take a look at the handles on a Carothers knife, they are the best I've ever held. I also like resiprene c handles that Busse uses.
 
Billy The Blade said:
I completely Disagree with these statements,
and innaccurate line of thought regarding knife handling.
B.T.B.
Click to expand...
Choils kinda instruct you how to hold your blade, if your hand doesn't really fit the choil or if you want to grip the knife in different way - bad luck.
I'm not saying that it's impossible to do different kinds of grip, but it certainly won't be comfortable. And handle without choils is the most neutral, offering you various types of grip.

Choil also creates a weak point since it's most often the thinnest part of the tang.

unwisefool said:
Take a look at the handles on a Carothers knife, they are the best I've ever held. I also like resiprene c handles that Busse uses.
Click to expand...
I saw the knives, and I held a knife with such handle once, and I agree with you, this handle shape is excellent for various ways of gripping the knife.

Even the best blade in the world is pretty much useless if the handle isn't good/comfortable enough to use it properly.
I think that lots of people don't fully realize how important factor knife handle is when it comes to performance and overall experience.
 
I don’t understand too dramatic finger choil in outdoors knives. More hand filling grip is just more comfortable. Another thing is hunting/skinning knives so I won’t make any arguments there.
 
It is interesting how many knife makers randomly put choils on folding/short knives, so a user can 'choke' up onto the blade. Personally, I value a choil if it is a big blade (10"+) or big chopper, since 'choking' up on a big blade will allow a better 'balance' and it's less tiring for longer use.

Unless the goal is to achieve compactness and shorter overall length, unnecessary small finger choil is a waste of prime real estate on a short 3-4" blade for me. YMMV.
 
Smiling said:
Choils kinda instruct you how to hold your blade, if your hand doesn't really fit the choil or if you want to grip the knife in different way - bad luck.
I'm not saying that it's impossible to do different kinds of grip, but it certainly won't be comfortable. And handle without choils is the most neutral, offering you various types of grip.
Click to expand...

I disagree yet again. Whether there is one or more finger choils, it allows either a more 'full handle' grip in a forward grip, or a 'choke up' grip, using the closest to the blade tang choil, as your front finger choil, and if reversing the grip, it reverses the finger grip, as well, but remains comfortable, and with much better blade edge protection, as in either grip your finger, or fingers are somewhat 'locked' into the
choil, choils, or even finger grooves.
 
Billy The Blade said:
I disagree yet again. Whether there is one or more finger choils, it allows either a more 'full handle' grip in a forward grip, or a 'choke up' grip, using the closest to the blade tang choil, as your front finger choil, and if reversing the grip, it reverses the finger grip, as well, but remains comfortable, and with much better blade edge protection, as in either grip your finger, or fingers are somewhat 'locked' into the
choil, choils, or even finger grooves.
Click to expand...
Your fingers aren't all in same size, so choils fiting your index finger and middle finger won't fit your pinky finger that well, and vice versa.

And choils made for knife intended to be used in hammer grip won't be that comfortable in forward grip. And vice versa...

Not to mention that hand size varies from person to person. And it's more likley for handle with choils to not fit you well, than regular handle simply being too large or small for a good grip if we talk about normal sized knives. Mini knives are more likley all to have small handle.

Plain handle a bit wider on the middle, fairly rounded but not round enough to make your blade rotate in your hand paired with guard to prevent your hand from slipping on the blade is pretty much best bet.
 
Skogen said:
Hej
I hear finger choil is about control. For me it’s about balance point.
I hear thumb on spine is about control. For me the thumb joint is a weak joint for pressure. Hammer grip is for pressure. Thumb on spine on jimping is for forward motion.
And when the finger choil is a finger groove it feels great with thumb on spine, but with a finger groove a hammer grip is worthless because the index finger will have no support.
And to come clean, I’m from Sweden, land of Mora and non self defence. I love knives, mostly american knives. But I some times wonder what in american ”outdoor knife” designs that is compromise to self defence.
First off, I find your post confusing as to questions asked & statements made that are innaccurate relating to knife handling options.
Whether or not a knife was designed with 'self defense' in mind, finger choils &/or finger grooves offer some blade edge protection, in a forward grip and when held in a reverse grip, they act the same
way. Spine jimping on the blade spine, & sometimes
'con't' behind, along the top of handle, not only give traction to your thunb, but are also used with the index finger extended on them to cut in this fashion, as well.
The Mora, that you're familiar with, (although Not designed as a defense knife) could, (like many other knives) be used in that manner.
Smiling said:
Your fingers aren't all in same size, so choils fiting your index finger and middle finger won't fit your pinky finger that well, and vice versa.
Click to expand...
Ofcourse, we all have different size fingers and hands, as well as varied finger / hand dexterity between individuals.
I would say that I have relatively large fingers & hands, but again, I have No comfort &/or control
issues reversing a forward grip to a reverse grip,
as long as the finger choil(s) and/or handle finger grooves are adequate for my larger fingers, than
my pinkey will fit just fine.
-I'm looking at four knives, including the C.S.Code4,
the Spyderco Manix xl, a Kershaw Skyline, and a CRKT Minimalist. All of which have one or more finger choils, with the Minimalist having Three,
making up the handle.
If you're familiar with the size of this one, It's basically a three finger grip knife, yet in either grip,
'the fourth' finger just naturally wraps to close your grip, or whether the original corded fob/lanyard is
still intact, (can also add some handle retention.)
The Manix xl offers Two finger choils, one behind the pivot, in the handle scales, offering a full four finger handle grip, and another one formed between
a jimped area on the rear of the blade, and the jimped portion of the scale.
Along with the spine / thumb ramp jimping and the
2nd choil, this offers a 'choke up' option, while still providing a secure grip.
I also see the benefit, & security of guards and choils on fixed blades, as well, but in regards to this-

comis said:
It is interesting how many knife makers randomly put choils on folding/short knives, so a user can 'choke' up onto the blade. Personally, I value a choil if it is a big blade..
Unless the goal is to achieve compactness and shorter overall length, unnecessary small finger choil is a waste of prime real estate on a short 3-4" blade for me.
Click to expand...
I disagree, as per the four knives I chose to look at,
b/c the folders all are in this blade range, and the
blade choils offer fine grip, with no loss of handle.
I agree, however, that a choil that is too small for a
a finger, should be an obvious 'sharpening' choil.
With all this said, It would be nice to see the O.P.
at least acknowledging the responses.
Click to expand...
 
I feel like if you need an excessive amount of pressure on a knife you either need to sharpen it or you need an axe/saw. I will agree that not all knife makers value ergonomics like they should, I've seen some real laughable designs from a user standpoint. For many it's more about dramatic design that catches the eye and promotes sales than about being usable or holding up in the field. The very best knives you'll buy are either incredibly plain and utilitarian or every aspect of them is designed for a specific use.
 
MarkN86 said:
I feel like if you need an excessive amount of pressure on a knife you either need to sharpen it or you need an axe/saw. I will agree that not all knife makers value ergonomics like they should, I've seen some real laughable designs from a user standpoint. For many it's more about dramatic design that catches the eye and promotes sales than about being usable or holding up in the field. The very best knives you'll buy are either incredibly plain and utilitarian or every aspect of them is designed for a specific use.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Manufacturers are aware of the fact that big percentage of people is buying knives just to collect them, and that lots of knives sold won't really see much use, so they aim for design instead of ergonomics.

I personally buy knives to use them and therefore only own 2. Each of them serves it's purpose.
 
Thank you guys, for taking the time. God reading!
Reason I’m asking is that I find this index groove in the handle to be so frequently occurring, also in utility knives. And I don’t understand why.
Sure I do some fine whittling and use different pinch grips and also put my thumb on the spine. But I also put some pressure behind my knives, force that cannot safely come from my thumb. And I never want to feel a void under my index finger for lack of material. Any need for a guard could, as stated above, easily be solved with a guard.
So, why is this design feature, that makes you hold your knife like a news paper, so much worth?
Johan
 
Last edited:
I think it would be helpful if you post a picture of this knife feature you're finding so hard to employ.

I can't make head or tails of what it could be never mind holding a knife like a "news paper". Do you mean like a culinary pinch grip?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top