To strop or not to strop?

Surfingringo

Surfingringo

Joined
May 25, 2013
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I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, so I was looking for an old thread where folks were giving their opinions on this subject, but couldn't find what I was looking for. Can anyone provide a link to a good thread discussing this subject?
 
The only thing that I can really say is through my own experience, I strop all of my blades with my current sharpening system of Sharpmaker. It really brings out that extra sharpness. I can't say for someone with better equipments.
 
Lance,

When first introduced to strop concept, I was using cardboard (like kleenex box) + MAAS polish. Brought the sharpness higher.

Then bluntcut introduced balanced strop which brought my edge sharper again. Nowadays I go back to Washboard which is stropping on hard backed texture. So, to me, it's WB or BS.

In both thread, there're quite a discussion, not sure if those are what you're looking for.
 
It all depends on how good you are with the stones. I typically only use a bare horse hide strop these days as I've refined my skill with a stone to produced edges that have little to no burr. That's not to say I don't like a strop loaded with 1micron diamond, helps to get the burr off and works fast because its diamond.
 
knifenut1013 said:
It all depends on how good you are with the stones. I typically only use a bare horse hide strop these days as I've refined my skill with a stone to produced edges that have little to no burr. That's not to say I don't like a strop loaded with 1micron diamond, helps to get the burr off and works fast because its diamond.
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This is too true! I like to think of stropping as more of getting full advantage of the potential of my stones. In my experience it seems like I can sharpen on whatever stones I want, and then stropping afterwards will give me an edge that takes advantage of the stone's grit without having a burr. So obviously stropping after the 400 grit stone will be coarser than stropping after the 3k stone, but they are both very crisp edges that will whittle hair.
 
Surfingringo said:
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, so I was looking for an old thread where folks were giving their opinions on this subject, but couldn't find what I was looking for. Can anyone provide a link to a good thread discussing this subject?
Click to expand...

Your question reminded me of a couple similar discussions not too long ago. Some decent feedback and perspective there:

Is stropping really harmful for edge retention?

Is stropping all that it is cracked up to be?

If using the Advanced Search function, and searching only on thread titles (select 'Search Titles Only') with the keyword 'stropping', will open a big barrel-full on the topic (speaking of ad nauseam). :)


David
 
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knifenut1013 said:
It all depends on how good you are with the stones. I typically only use a bare horse hide strop these days as I've refined my skill with a stone to produced edges that have little to no burr. That's not to say I don't like a strop loaded with 1micron diamond, helps to get the burr off and works fast because its diamond.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that I am able to easily and completely eliminate any burr when I add my 40 degree micro bevel. Does anyone add a micro bevel and THEN strop?

I'm asking these questions because I'm going to the states soon and if I'm going to buy anything I have to decide now. Honestly, I'm extremely happy with the results I'm getting with the sharpmaker. I can get most of my edges to whittle hair off the fine stones. I'm going to get the uf stones too, so I just can't see any real reason to strop. I'm able to touch up my edges super quick and easy and get great results. It's just that I always here you guys going on about strops and stropping and I feel like I'm missing out on something.
 
Surfingringo said:
It seems to me that I am able to easily and completely eliminate any burr when I add my 40 degree micro bevel. Does anyone add a micro bevel and THEN strop?

I'm asking these questions because I'm going to the states soon and if I'm going to buy anything I have to decide now. Honestly, I'm extremely happy with the results I'm getting with the sharpmaker. I can get most of my edges to whittle hair off the fine stones. I'm going to get the uf stones too, so I just can't see any real reason to strop. I'm able to touch up my edges super quick and easy and get great results. It's just that I always here you guys going on about strops and stropping and I feel like I'm missing out on something.
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If you're happy with the results you're getting, no reason to worry. I do think some creative combinations of stropping substrate & compound can do some wonderful things for edges that are already good or even great. Quite a lot of fun in experimenting & searching for these things, and sometimes they pay off in surprising ways.


David
 
Thanks all, I'm sure I will give in and have to give it a try before too long. Like david said though, since I'm happy with the results I'm getting now, I think I will just enjoy my current setup and see just how much I can get out of it. I think any benefit I might see from stropping will be more meaningful if I first explore the limits of the stones I am using.
 
I believe stropping can be beneficial. I also believe that a large percentage of people on this site are degrading their edges. I would go so far as to say that half the people on this site would be better off not stropping at all or at least reexamining the stropping regimen they currently use.
The more you know about steel and it's components, the more questionable common stropping practices seem.
He who shall not be named is not the only one who has issues with edge trailing methods. Russ
 
I have a tough time making any definitive statements about stropping anymore. The result is so different with relatively minor changes in compound abrasive, binder, surface, firmness of backing, mobility of the particles etc. Much easier to rely on a stone for most work, but I believe there are some serious benefits to experimenting and understanding various methods of working with abrasives, including stropping.

From my experience, it is a great way to maintain an edge without the need to raise/remove or even worry about, a burr every time. I finish all sharpening jobs with some form of trailing stroke on a "soft" surface, no matter if its a hasty edge off a 120 grit stone, or an 8k JWS, even if nothing more than plain paper wrapped around a stone or Washboard.

I agree with some sentiments that it can be harmful to the results if poorly executed - one should be suspicious of all one's methods and constantly looking to cut out unnecessary or detrimental practices, whether stropping, stone work, or other.
 
I think the question is incomplete. It is missing the "when" component. It could go two ways.

Should you strop after stone work for that "extra edge"? Only if you want to smoothly cut delicate material. (First two paragraphs)

Should you strop to maintain and prevent going back to the stones as fast? Only for so long. (Third paragraph)


My strop uses green and white compound. The white will blacken when used right after stoning so it's really removing lots of debris from the edge. My stone skill are not amazing, this may be why I get so much metal transfer to the strop. The green doesn't seem to remove much metal. Stropping seems to help me regardless of the finishing stone. If I only go to the course DMT it helps. It takes it from tearing PB paper to slicing it. The same is true if I take it to extra fine DMT. For me, stropping improves slicing of this delicate materials. It also help with hair whittling in the same way. Regardless of the DMT used, after a few passes on the white and green, it will split hair.

For cutting real things, not edge candy, stropping doesn't matter to me. Letter, boxes, rope, tape, plastic... are all the same stropped or not. I don't see edges lasting any longer if stropped. So, to me it's used to clean an already sharp edge. It removes tiny snags that really don't matter unless you must cleanly push cut thin paper.

Lastly, it does bring some life back to a dulled edge. It' doesn't remove chips but can help smooth out a roll or slightly convex the dulling edge. Stropping too much, or touching up multiple times, seems to remove any teeth and polish the edge smooth. If you love smooth polished edges and/or need to clean up an edge after sharpening, then strop! If you like some tooth or cut boxes and plastic ties why go through the trouble. Cutting up a box "unstrops" the knife very fast.

Nothing is simple. We all like different things. Everyone has the edge that is just right for them. When you are back in the states you should get a strop. Buy the materials and make one or get one... super cheap! What can it hurt to spend ~$20? You strike me as a curious mind. Buy it, forget it, then find some free time and play!!!

[/ramble]
 
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Surfingringo said:
Thanks all, I'm sure I will give in and have to give it a try before too long. Like david said though, since I'm happy with the results I'm getting now, I think I will just enjoy my current setup and see just how much I can get out of it. I think any benefit I might see from stropping will be more meaningful if I first explore the limits of the stones I am using.
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You can always use some improvised methods to get your feet wet. Unless stropping on plain leather made from horsehide, there are many substrates that can hold polishing compound and work every bit as good as or better than premium leathers. The most simple can be nothing more than a sheet or two of paper wrapped round your bench stone, with or without compound. Its cheap, repeatable, and disposable (recyclable). Easy enough to try this coming off the stones and you can test before/after on the spot. Without compound, you will still see a difference and it is extremely unlikely to round the edge or smooth out any beneficial edge irregularities - also very tolerant of small variations in pressure and angle control compared to stropping with an abrasive.

Martin
 
Thanks Martin. I have tried making trailing strokes with the white sm stones with and without the sm as a guide) and I just tried what you suggested with the copy paper. I get the same results from both, which is to say I downgrade a tree-topping edge into a regular shaving edge. I have given a fair bit of time to practicing the edge trailing stroke as a finish but have never accomplished anything but slightly degrading my edges. I'm not saying the technique doesn't work, just that it is apparently not working the way I am applying it.

I'm curious to see what kind of improvement I get out of the sharpmaker uf stones. I think given the level of sharpness I'm already getting off the fines, if I see any improvement at all it is going to make stropping seem even more superfluous. Just my current opinion which is subject to constant change. :D
 
My usual finishing stone is a 1500 grit ceramic. I always strop (ChromOx) to bring up the polish.

Yesterday I had a very thick (shipping) cardboard tube that I was breaking down. I used a hacksaw for most of it. Just for fun I tried the 28° Contego and I was seriously blown away by how easily it push cut through the cardboard. I then tried a beater Kabar that had a more obtuse bevel + a toothy edge. Wouldn't cut at all.

How much can be attributed to stropping? I'd have to do a bunch of testing to find out, but my hunch is that the m4 benefited greatly from it. Indeed, I maintain most of my blades by stropping and I can tell you without a doubt that it is very effective.

Bottom line (imo), strop to *refine* a SHARP edge. Strop to *maintain* a SHARP edge. Do those and you'll maximize the abilities of your strop.

It's a very valuable addition to my arsenal.
 
Surfingringo said:
Thanks Martin. I have tried making trailing strokes with the white sm stones with and without the sm as a guide) and I just tried what you suggested with the copy paper. I get the same results from both, which is to say I downgrade a tree-topping edge into a regular shaving edge. I have given a fair bit of time to practicing the edge trailing stroke as a finish but have never accomplished anything but slightly degrading my edges. I'm not saying the technique doesn't work, just that it is apparently not working the way I am applying it.

I'm curious to see what kind of improvement I get out of the sharpmaker uf stones. I think given the level of sharpness I'm already getting off the fines, if I see any improvement at all it is going to make stropping seem even more superfluous. Just my current opinion which is subject to constant change. :D
Click to expand...

From what i have found, and I find it to be very consistent, you cannot use an edge trailing stroke on a hard stone, be it diamond, vitreous, or ceramic and have the edge turn out better than what you can achieve edge leading. A trailing stroke is only practical if you're working on something where the abrasive has mobility and or ability to deflect into the surface a bit - think of loose grit on a hardwood board, one of the "softer" waterstones, a traditional or not so traditional strop.

If some stropping on plain paper is degrading the edge I'd be very suspicious of the edge as it comes off the stones - in my experience only the high carbide content steels will show any sort of degradation from some paper stropping, and then only with a lot of pressure. Even then, if I use more than one sheet of paper and less pressure I still see an improvement. On fine grained stainless and carbon steel the change is usually more pronounced. But that's only what I have experienced, and as I mentioned its difficult to compare apples to apples without standing right there, small variables can totally skew results.

Just keep plugging away in whatever direction you care, additional skill on the stones is always good, but I always advise lots of tinkering on the side - it can only improve your understanding of how things work and maybe help improve on aspects you thought you'd settled. There was a time I had written off stropping, and I still don't bother to use to use leather, but I now strop (backhone) as a very integral part of my sharpening and maintenance strategy. The devils in the details.

Martin
 
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