todays production swords

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Burningcort

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Dec 10, 2006
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how do todays production sowrds compair to "production" swords of soldiers say from 1000AD to the 1600's

now I am not talking about top quality stuff that was produced by some master sword maker....

I am talking about the swords that the average soldier might have carried versus say a $300 production sword (Not 440 stainless)

when you have to arm an army back then I understand a lot of soldiers just carried spears and axes and clubs....but I am still curious...


mass production sword for 10-16 century army vs say WSC, CS, other comparable stuff...

well for that matter a spear tip from say 14th century vs a cold steel boar spear...
 
Well, $300 is around entry level for a quality sword. The metal itself is probably as good or better, given modern steels and production methods. Where you're going to find your differences is in finish, handling, and balance, as well as true period accuracy. Those aspects are the parts that will still require a maker's hand in doing a good job; and that's where modern swords might suffer the most at that cost point. For example, I have several Cold Steel cutlasses....I feel those are decent swords for the price; but they can tend to run a bit blade heavy, compared to what I've heard of period pieces. I think I've read that they are built heavier to put up with the abuse that they might receive in modern use, vice what the original purpose was. I can tell you that I'm very satisfied with mine; and they'll take a decent beating with work that a sword was never meant to do. Do not buy them at MSRP.

For $300, if you smart-shop, I'd say you'll get a decent working replica of most swords that's every bit as durable as what would be an entry-level period sword; however, it might be a bit heavier and less "graceful" in handling; and you might have to mess with or repair the handle and fittings to make it "feel" better for you. I don't think you'll be unhappy with it, though. Oh, and by "smart-shop", I mean do good research and make sure that the manufacturer has a decent reputation...you want to start with decent steel and heat treat.

If you're looking for a period replica that truly replicates, in appearance, quality, and handling, you're looking at between $500 and $1000, and up.

Spears are a bit easier, I think, to match quality. The only real issues that you'll have there is period accuracy, provided you find a good manufacturer to begin with. Cold Steel's Boar Spear is a nice piece. It's a little thinner than a period war spear; but I think it's made that way, for its intended modern purpose.
 
I am not looking at a production sowd to buy...I am just curious...

now if I could find a semi-production gladious...for 300-400 but with the look of a GAGE or BUSSE....I would get it...hell if I had $1000 I would get a Gage....


I am just trying to fill a knowledge gap concerning swords....but thank you for the reply....

keep it coming guys....
 
I'd suggest Kris Cutlery; but they appear to have discontinued their Gladius (?!).

I have both the Gage and the Busse. Both are magnificent swords; the Gage is the shorter but more nimble of the two and would make a more graceful fighter; while the Busse is a powerhouse that will take and inflict more abuse but will ask a lot of the arm in which you're wielding it.

If you like a modern gladius, you don't necessarily need production or semi-production. Consider a custom job by a good, reputable smith. Why not give Justin Gingrich of Ranger Knives a call and see how much he'd charge for a basic tactical gladius? I don't currently have one of his; but he's on my list to commission. Plus, I've heard very good things from others on this forum about his work. I believe he uses 5160 (that's a great steel for a long blade); and he's made swords for folks before. Go no frills, basic gladius shape, basic micarta handles, "combat" finish....it might put you up in the $500-600 range; but you'll have a wonderful gladius that's every bit the equal or better of a period one (it won't be historically accurate, but you don't seem to be concerned with that. Plus, IMHO it's a waste, unless you're re-enacting). And you'll also have a very nice heirloom piece that you can hand down to your kids.

To answer your original question, but specific to the gladius: a tactical gladius made from 5160 with good heat treat and no-frills micarta scales, made by a good smith? Yes, I think that would definitely be the equal (at least) or better than the majority of period swords. And it could well cost in the neighborhood of $500, not far from your original target cost.

Edited to add: Also, go onto Sword Forums and ask the same question; those guys really know their stuff.
 
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The biggest advantage we have today is modern metallurgy is much more precise. It's also more diverse. We have many different types of steels to choose from and we know about the strengths and weaknesses of each one.

From this selection of material and knowledge, today's sword makers have options the smiths of old did not have. IF they use it wisely. A lot of them do their best to do so. Some of them don't care. Then you have others who create fantastic work.
 
so how would a Hanwei Tinker Line Bastard Sword compare to a bastard sword it was designed from

or a hanwei short sword to a comparable short sword....

these are just examples...
 
Burningcort said:
so how would a Hanwei Tinker Line Bastard Sword compare to a bastard sword it was designed from

or a hanwei short sword to a comparable short sword....

these are just examples...
Click to expand...

Today's swordmakers are probably more consistantly good because the quality and properties of today's steel is more consistant.

If you were to go back in time to say 1300AD and visit the aftermath of a medieval battle, you would find broken swords all over the place. There was a big difference in quality between the weapons weilded by the nobility and those weilded by the common soldier. A higher end sword made today (such as Albion) would be more comparable to a medieval noble's sword. The common soldier's weapon would be closer to something made by Hanwei or Windlass. JMO.
 
Burningcort said:
so how would a Hanwei Tinker Line Bastard Sword compare to a bastard sword it was designed from

or a hanwei short sword to a comparable short sword....

these are just examples...
Click to expand...


Hanwei is a decent entry-level. I've heard some mixed things about them (mostly fit/finish related, but some heat-treat); but the general impression is that they are good for what they cost, and that cost at all price levels reflects the work put into it. Check out this link:

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Hanwei-Tinker-Line-Bastard-Sword.html

Then do a search on Sword Forums and Blade Forums for Hanwei sword reviews. I don't have the Bastard Sword or the Short Sword by Hanwei; but I used to own the Damascus Gotfried Viking Sword, and still own the Banshee. I like/liked them both. I kept the Banshee because it's a great basic version of the Burmese Dha and a nice little sword. I got rid of the Viking because of this:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8595&highlight=break

It's not that I think my Viking was bad; but I made the conscious decision to upgrade to an Albion. In my opinion, at the entry level you have a greater chance of getting lemons, just like someone back in the medieval period could get a lemon. However, I think that their best work (at all price levels) would easily be comparable to a period sword from most basic swordsmiths of that time. The problem is, you have to find one that was made right; do you know enough to be comfortable with your purchase? For starters, do your research and buy from a reputable dealer.
 
see I am not looking to purchase....

I am looking for discusion on swords and how they compare to each other in various time frames....

I am also very curious as to why sword designs changed as time went on..as to length and style...taper changes etc...
 
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Burningcort said:
see I am not looking to purchase....

I am looking for discusion on swords and how they compare to each other in various time frames....

I am also very curious as to why sword designs changed as time went on..as to length and style...taper changes etc...
Click to expand...

Many different factors go into the evolution of swords.

The horseman needs a longer, but faster blade, preferably curved.

A footman doesn't *need* a longer sword, but it helps defend against a horseman if he loses his polearm.

As armor became more advanced, the edge of a sword was rendered virtually useless; so longer pointy swords were developed which could find openings to pierce through.

Sometimes the style of sword determines the way it is used. Other times a sword is purposely designed for a fighting system. Usually they evolved together.

If you go back to the olden days, sword designs and sizes were limited by the limitations of the material used. In the Bronze Age and early Iron Age swords tended to be a bit smallish, even though longer blades did exist.


Myself, I like swords. I like Viking/Germanic and Celtic swords. I appreciate a good katana or Chinese Dao. But my favorites are the first swords; the swords of the ancient world, especially the Sickle Sword, also called the Sappara or Khopesh. Some of those early swords (copper) look to our modern eyes like something from science fiction, but they were well designed and smited many enemies in their day.
 
Burningcort said:
see I am not looking to purchase....

I am looking for discusion on swords and how they compare to each other in various time frames....

I am also very curious as to why sword designs changed as time went on..as to length and style...taper changes etc...
Click to expand...

I understand that; but research to answer your question and research to make a smart purchase will lead you down the same path. Wolf_1989 is correct...there are many different types/styles of swords that evolved for different purposes. However, because swords are not used today for their original purpose as actual weapons, any discussion is at least partially theoretical and academic. You will eventually have to go to those people who own them and who actually use them...whether they cut with them (any media), do stage combat, manuals of arms, etc. An academic discussion is fine; but in the end you'll need to pick one up and see how it feels (or talk to someone who has). For starters, try these books:

The Book of the Sword by Sir Richard F. Burton

The Archaeology of Weapons: Arms and Armour from Prehistory to the Age of Chivalry by R. Ewart Oakeshott

The Book of Swords by Hank Reinhardt

None of them are perfect; but they'll give you an idea of what you're looking at. The old one, by Sir Richard Burton, is only the first part of a trilogy that was not completed. Still, they will help you at least get your bearings.

Also, check out these websites:

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/

http://www.myarmoury.com/home.php

http://www.swordforum.com/

Whether you're buying or not, you'll be asking the same questions as someone who is serious about purchasing one; in other words, someone who is truly interested in swords and their history, as opposed to just buying a long blade.
 
Modern production swords in the 300 to 600 dollar range are going to be made of steel which is more consistent in carbon distribution and quantity (% of carbon) and therefore of generally better quality than almost any period origional.

Del Tins are fine examples of traditionally made swords with very similar fit and finish to period examples. The differences will be found in blade geometry which will affect the blade's handling characteristics. Many modern reproductions at the lower end of the price spectrum, that is, from the 300 to 6oo dollar range have been "designed" without examination of a period example of similar type and therefore might not have the same blade and overall geometry, maybe even lacking any "distal taper" at all which will result in a blade that is almost completely useless in battle. Here is a link to some good information on how swords, European style anyway, were made.
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords-functional.htm
http://www.albion-swords.com/
The link on top explains why period origionals were made with hot peened pommels for instance.

Anyway, I figure once you get to the 600 dollar to 3000 dollar range from those makers who have the reputation to command those sorts of prices a person is probably handling a sword which would be superior in quality of materials used and fit and finish to probably any period origional, and the equal of any period origional of the highest quality in balance and handling characteristics.
 
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