Tom Brown question...

darkestthicket

darkestthicket

Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
1,106
Hello all,

Im a pretty avid Tom Brown fan and plan to attend his class someday, my question is, after reading some of the controversy surrounding him, how many of you have met him and were impressed with him? I admit some of his claims are outlandish and he even contradicts himself and stories in his books conflict with eachother so I am wondering if he is full of...poo? on some details of his reported "cases"?

I wont disagree that the man knows outdoor skills but... I just wonder about some of the stuff he has reported.


Thanks.
 
I've never met him, but I have talked with someone who has met him adn worked with several of the other big names in "Outdoor/Wilderness" skills stuff and his impression was that the guy does actually know alot about the "outdoors stuff", but he was skeptical of the "old indian that taught me" stories and some of his "adventures" had sketchy details.

Kinda what in advertising is called "puffery".
 
The Last Confederate said:
I've never met him, but I have talked with someone who has met him adn worked with several of the other big names in "Outdoor/Wilderness" skills stuff and his impression was that the guy does actually know alot about the "outdoors stuff", but he was skeptical of the "old indian that taught me" stories and some of his "adventures" had sketchy details.

Kinda what in advertising is called "puffery".
Click to expand...


Yeah the "puffery" is mainly what im talking about, you can tell by his books he knows the craft, but i see no reason to embellish how he learned it as his methods results should speak for themselves.
 
aaronjayl said:
Hey, dt. Yep, I do read more than Bushido/Samurai topics ;) Check out this website. It's probably about the most informative on the Tracker School I have found. Also has a lot of background and both sides of the whole controversy.

http://www.trackertrail.com/default.html
Click to expand...


LOL that is saved in my browser favorites already, ive been a long time fan of T.B. but lately ive just got a little fed up with all the not so great things ive heard about him.


Mac, excellent reading, i get the idea you didnt actually get to spend a whole lot of time with Tom Brown himself due to otehr obligations? ive read this is an increasing problem.
 
From what I understand, TB spends very little time teaching anymore. I have even heard people say they never saw him during the class.

As far as the "old indian" stuff, hey, the guy has a gimmick that sets him out from all the other wilderness skills style schools, is it true, I have no idea but I know it works, it brings people in and makes him money.

There is no doubt that the man is at the top of his game as far as skill is concerned, he knows his stuff and could teach most quite a bit. My problem with his classes is first, the price and second all the fluff you need to wade through to get the info.

I want to learn friction fire, not how to prey for the life of the rock I'm going to put into the fire.
 
I dont even mind the spiritual aspects if they are in fact grounded in something that actually happened (as handed down by grandfather supposedly) i just want to think there might have been a true basis for his "spirituality" and in that and other instances (see the 2 stories written about "the hunted" incident for example, they contradict each other, or he has been shot in the back twice) before i hand him 800$ or so to attend.


Edit : again i dont intend to insult Tom, he knows his craft for sure, only curious about his "mythology" lol.
 
Sounds like we're in the same boat. Only difference is I already chose not to pay for his spirituality, true or not. They give that away in churches, I want wilderness know how.

I dont think it would go over really well if I went into the class and said "OK, lets cut the crap and get down to business."
 
The spirituality is interwoven through the courses, and at least in the standard courses is not presented in more than a superficial" respect nature in order to flow with it" way. I have been to two of the philosophy courses and Tom still does do many of the lectures. There really is no reason for Tom to be at most of the basic standard lectures and I learned much from the courses I took. The instructors seem to have become more arrogant and jaded over the past five years which takes away some of the credibility of the schools philosophy, but The basics are the basics, you will get out of them what you put into it.
 
I don't know much about Tom, but did read a couple of his earlier ghost written books way back when. And out of curiosity, did browse around the web to see what his detractors had to say. One point I never saw mentioned, was that he claims to have "gone to the woods" for ten years after graduating High School. I saw that he was 37 in 87 if I remember right, so he would have been 27 in 77, 17 or 18 in 68, when the military draft was in full swing. Hmmm.... Now why would an American boy take off for the woods for ten years when he was of age (and apparently physically fit) for the draft? I get bells and whistles on that one, but there is no basis of fact, just supposition there.

Fact is that he is successful now, drives a gasguzzler Hummer, and wears a rolex by selling the learning that his unidentified NA Apache mentor gave to him. And in spite of his wisdom, he is a smoker? Well, no one is perfect, and he does seem to have attracted some good paramilitary instructors to his school. WHile I might personally question his honesty, the fact remains that he has done well making a living doing something he likes doing, and many of his students are quite satisfied and return for more. "Thank you Sargent, may I have another?!"

Codger
 
I believe it was 1 year, not 10 in the woods, he writes about it in "the quest" or "the vision" im not sure which.
 
I happen to be reading the Quest again. I first read it in my 30's and now I'm in my mid forties. (He does say he wandered for 10 years in that book) What a difference that 10 years makes in what one will swallow... There are a lot of absolute statements there that are very suspect.

Tom's spiritual stuff may work, (but I've never been able to figure out if the things I saw in my head were actual or just power of suggestion) I took the Philosophy class in 94 and he taught a lot. Since then, I've noticed a trend for him to act more as an emcee, introducing a new assistant instructor who will be giving the lecture.

In 94, Tom offhandedly said, "the old man's pissed off at me and won't talk to me." The Sherwoods (Frank & Karen) who were his head instructors, left shortly thereafter, and, with the exception of the Scout, I've been taking their classes (they're in the NW as am I) as they teach straightforward skills. (and teach them well)

One thing Tom IS doing, is spreading the message. His books are interesting, and whether one chooses to believe the stories or not, they certainly have put a lot of people on the Wilderness Skills path, and Tom will have my undying respect for that.
 
Well nothing to add about Tom Brown himself, but I know the cost, spirituality, and all prerequisites for certain classes really turned me off. I was interested in a Scout class and really didn’t want to sit through two classes to get there.
 
"Tom's spiritual stuff may work, (but I've never been able to figure out if the things I saw in my head were actual or just power of suggestion) I took the Philosophy class in 94 and he taught a lot. Since then, I've noticed a trend for him to act more as an emcee, introducing a new assistant instructor who will be giving the lecture."


Excellent point, its like guided meditation in a way. or an acid trip.
 
darkestthicket said:
Hello all,

Im a pretty avid Tom Brown fan and plan to attend his class someday, my question is, after reading some of the controversy surrounding him, how many of you have met him and were impressed with him? I admit some of his claims are outlandish and he even contradicts himself and stories in his books conflict with eachother so I am wondering if he is full of...poo? on some details of his reported "cases"?

I wont disagree that the man knows outdoor skills but... I just wonder about some of the stuff he has reported.


Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you live here in WV get a few books on edible foods, head out to Cranberry Wilderness or Dolly Sods and teach yourself.
 
hollowdweller said:
If you live here in WV get a few books on edible foods, head out to Cranberry Wilderness or Dolly Sods and teach yourself.
Click to expand...

I think as hollowdweller does. For me it's much more satisfying when I do it myself w/ the aid of books.
 
Macclint said:
One thing Tom IS doing, is spreading the message. His books are interesting, and whether one chooses to believe the stories or not, they certainly have put a lot of people on the Wilderness Skills path, and Tom will have my undying respect for that.
Click to expand...

I am no Tom Brown expert, nor am I a wilderness skills expert. I have read some of Tom Brown Jr's materials, but I don't know many of his stories. From what I've read, it sounds as though he has a heavy traditional Native American influence behind his methods. Yea, I know, I'm probably stating the obvious there.

But considering that, I can make a lot of sense out of most of what he does with classes and such. Even if some of his stories seem unreal, I wouldn't hold that against him. I guess I would look at it more as an inspirational delivery to help drive points home. I think of story telling as a method of teaching. I also think of books I've read on Native American culture and spirituality, and can understand TBJr's angle. Maybe I'm completely off base here, too...

I don't know. Whatever the topic, there will always be naysayers. I'm not saying I'm one of TBJr's minions, nor am I a TBJr detractor. His stories, skills, and school interest me. So do all the other wilderness skills schools, and so on. Rather than just read something that TBJr wrote, or someone else wrote about TBJr, and take it to heart, I just add it as one more little piece of a gi-normous puzzle.

And I don't think TBJr accumulated the knowledge from his mentor with the intent of getting rich off it someday. He discovered a niche, filled it, became successful at doing so, and bought a Hummer, or whatever. Does Bill Gates have a Hummer? Anyhoo, I can't hate the guy just because he knows how to make $$ doing something he believes in.

One thing that has bothered me slightly is how TBJr/TOPS knkives came down on RED Scorpion Six-Blades for their WSK knife design. I don't know how much TBJr had to do with that, but I don't think it was right, considering that there are other current makers turning out similar knives.

Sorry if I rambled a bunch here. Too many thoughts filling my little brain...
 
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