Tony Bose, Bob Loveless ~ Who Will Change The Game Next?

[KBA]

This question may have been brought up before. I do not recall reading it in my time here.

Who is the up and coming Tony Bose and Bob Loveless of our time? What I mean by that is Bose was not always "Bose" and Loveless was not always, "Loveless" they became those icons in the hobby after some time, after being just two other guys making knives.

Who will become the next icon that may not be as appreciated as they should? Heck, will there ever be another Bose or Loveless? Why?

Jared Oeser and such of his caliber could be named, but their knives are already known and are running high in the price market. I'm more curious as to the marker whose knives are still obtainable in price for the average person, but will one day be 10x the amount one day. Think Bose or Loveless in the beginning years.

Im not interested in buying the knives mentioned or for seeing collectible opportunities, or value, as much as I am interested in hearing thoughts and opinions.

So, who will be the next game changer?

 

[black mamba]

Brett, I'm not sure there will be another like either of the titans you mention. Loveless more or less vitalized the custom knife market after WWII, and was a real innovator in a pretty new market. Innovation is much harder today, with nearly everything already tried. I think we're in an age of much more incremental change. Bose is the master of bringing back the old, the original, the forgotten. There has been such a resurgence in traditional knives in the last decade or more, it's hard to see another game changer coming along. There are dozens of makers today that can all but make a perfect knife, the skill level has risen to the Nth degree.

The only area I see where there's room for a titan to emerge is heat-treating with the new steels. Super high hardness steels with the toughness of 3V or even S7 . . . now that would be something!

 

[Rockon75]

How about Evan S. Nicolaides? Evan has, ohhhhhhh about 40 more years of practice and look at how far he has come so fast. He is humble and learning from the existing "masters". Have you seen anyone hand checker a knife like he can? He's going to be good, and he learns fast!! Heck, he's already good, he's going to be great!

 

[KBA]

Jeff, I was thinking the same but am still green enough to all this, especially the history, to wonder.

While I appreciate Bose, and his work, there are still things I do not like about his knives, his blade grinds for example. For me, this is a hard question to answer while staying in the traditional realm. So many things have changed and are changing so fast.

 

[KBA]

How about Evan S. Nicolaides? Evan has, ohhhhhhh about 40 more years of practice and look at how far he has come so fast. He is humble and learning from the existing "masters". Have you seen anyone hand checker a knife like he can? He's going to be good, and he learns fast!! Heck, he's already good, he's going to be great!

I hope youre right and have no arguement or reason to say your wrong. Yet, Bose and Loveless have set a ceiling that not even some great makers are close too.

Ken Erickson is certainly a personal game changer for me.

 

[supratentorial]

"Chang[ing] the game" and "will one day be 10x the amount one day" are completely different things. Value, especially knife values, rely on the whims of fickle collectors. The folks with the deepest pockets may not even know "the game" at all.

Who will actually change the game is a very interesting question. Who's knives will increase in value is mostly a matter of popularity.

 

[KBA]

"Chang[ing] the game" and "will one day be 10x the amount one day" are completely different things. Value, especially knife values, rely on the whims of fickle collectors. The folks with the deepest pockets may not even know "the game" at all.

Who will actually change the game is a very interesting question. Who's knives will increase in value is mostly a matter of popularity.

Thank you for focusing my question. I failed in trying to steer it away from value, collecting, and subjective deep pockets. I was trying to give an example of how these two men became popular after changing the game.

 

[shipwright]

I think Jared Oeser and Enrique Peña qualify for changing the game, mixing both modern and traditional aspects in a new way. Traditional patterns with screws, titanium, colorful micarta laminations, and new patterns. Not to mention they both do some of the cleanest builds and grinds out there. Price and popularity aside, I think they certainly set a new bar that others are following.

 

[supratentorial]

Tony is such a big game changer not only because of his own work. He's directly influenced other custom makers (including Pena and Oeser) even to the extent of sending them his own patterns. He's also introduced collaboration of production knife companies with custom makers of traditional knives as has been done with modern knife companies like Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, etc. For traditional pocket knives, Tony's impact has been huge and he's created a lot of opportunities for others. Aside from those opportunities, I'm not sure what could be next. But I'd love to see it!

Pena and Oeser (separately and in collaboration with each other) have made some interesting modern/traditional hybrids. I've often said that seems to be a market with a lot of opportunity for growth.

 

[KBA]

I think Jared Oeser and Enrique Peña qualify for changing the game, mixing both modern and traditional aspects in a new way. Traditional patterns with screws, titanium, colorful micarta laminations, and new patterns. Not to mention they both do some of the cleanest builds and grinds out there. Price and popularity aside, I think they certainly set a new bar that others are following.

Agreed. Im more focused on the makers who are not as established as Oeser and Pena.

 

[KBA]

Tony is such a big game changer not only because of his own work. He's directly influenced other custom makers (including Pena and Oeser) even to the extent of sending them his own patterns. He's also introduced collaboration of production knife companies with custom makers of traditional knives as has been done with modern knife companies like Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, etc. For traditional pocket knives, Tony's impact has been huge and he's created a lot of opportunities for others. Aside from those opportunities, I'm not sure what could be next. But I'd love to see it!

Pena and Oeser (separately and in collaboration with each other) have made some interesting modern/traditional hybrids. I've often said that seems to be a market with a lot of opportunity for growth.

See, that is what I am curious about as well. Has Bose set the ceiling so high with traditionals that hybrids have to be the next step to change the game? Or, is there more to traditional knives in a new maker in the historical pure sense?

 

[KBA]

I guess one could argue that a single person may not, but a company, such as GEC, may change the game. Look at how they have exploded the interest in traditional knives.

 

[thales2015]

In terms of under-appreciated makers, I would say the Brazilian Richardo Romano - his slipjoints are flawless and his methods and materials very traditional (makes his own purpose driven tools for the craft and typically uses woods like ebony & ironwood, and synthetics like canvas micarta). He is not as well known as makers such as Oeser and Peña perhaps (whose work I love btw), but he should be. His lack of a robust social media presence and his lack of English language speaking skills make it tougher to build a buzz, but you can bet more folks will come to know the superb work he does - and he's only getting better. Maker's mark aside, I challenge anyone to find a better made slipjoint. His knives are still fairly reasonable in price for a custom, but I suspect in the next year or so the secondary will go nuts on them.

In terms of creativity with patterns, as noted, Oeser is doing some extremely creative stuff (materials use too). He is certainly a game-changer in that regard.

Pepe Jalomo is also doing some very creative things and taking chances - certainly another one to watch take off.

 

[supratentorial]

See, that is what I am curious about as well. Has Bose set the ceiling so high with traditionals that hybrids have to be the next step to change the game? Or, is there more to traditional knives in a new maker in the historical pure sense?

I guess one could argue that a single person may not, but a company, such as GEC, may change the game. Look at how they have exploded the interest in traditional knives.

There are definitely lots of old patterns waiting to be reborn, especially multi-blades. There seems to be fewer people interested in old catalogs and books that have all of this information...as well as actual examples of old knives that are well preserved--that's unfortunate I think. If makers/manufacturers/dealers have an interest, there are lots of opportunities out there. Charlie has done this the right way with his SFOs (as have some other collectors before him)...with Queen and now GEC... and that ties in to the second quote. Dealers are taking a larger interest now. I think a lot of focus from dealers is on single blades presently. There are lots of modern knife guys who are looking for traditional knives that closely resemble the modern knives they are familiar with. And from a manufacturer perspective, single blades are less work. With single blades, I think the next step is definitely traditional patterns with modern construction and locking mechanisms. Like a Remington folding hunter or barlow with a frame lock or compression lock, etc. Locking versions of those knives are 100 years old, but new versions with newer locking mechanisms and modern screw together construction haven't been made.

 

[KBA]

David, that is a name I have not heard of and one I will certainly look up. You bring up a variable that certainly plays a part in it. Technology certainly has influence.

I have to get my girls down for the night which is a battle nowadays. I look forward to reading any further thoughts and post. Ive enjoyed the discussion.

 

[thales2015]

Hey Brett, yes - by all means look him up. If you are on IG, you can find him @cutromano

David, that is a name I have not heard of and one I will certainly look up. You bring up a variable that certainly plays a part in it. Technology certainly has influence.

I have to get my girls down for the night which is a battle nowadays. I look forward to reading any further thoughts and post. Ive enjoyed the discussion.

 

[boy&hisdogs]

I think the next big innovation will be in the community rather than the knives themselves, namely forums and Youtube. This is already happening, there's guys on Youtube who are talented knife makers as well as video makers nad it's these guys who make good videos that help spread the hobby. But I don't think any one of them is leading the charge enough to be crowned king of the generation.

What got me into knife making was about half youtube and half this forum (and others, to a lesser extent). It's nice for me at least to be able to see the full spectrum of makers, from the guys who only use basic everyday tools, to the full-time professionals, to the factories, to the guys who do it strictly the old way with no power tools.

If anyone is interested, I can recommend a few. Walter Sorrels and Aaron Gough (Gough Customs) are my favorite modern makers that make how-to style videos. Caleb White makes good instructional videos too, but I would say his are better suited for someone on their 10th knife rather than their first.

Trollsky is another good one, he uses fewer words and his videos are a lot more visual. They're less instructional but you can still learn a lot just watching him work. Crossed Heart Forge videos are also less instructional, and they are long but they are very detailed. He does everything the traditional Japanese way with old style tools. Most people might pass this over, but it's important to learn how to do things the hard way. He's good about showing what needs to be done so you've got a solid foundation for coming up with your own methods. And sometimes if you can't afford the specialized tools, the old/hard way is the only way. Even if you aren't a knife maker, just sit down one evening with a warm drink and watch him work, it's mesmerizing.

TheApostleP is not a maker but he has an EXCELLENT series of videos about a tour he took of the GEC factory. GEC may be a mass production company but almost every step of the way has a human touch. Seeing how things are done by GEC will give you lots of good ideas for your own work. He's not the only one either, there's a few other channels that did a GEC tour.

Of course there are many others, I'm just listing the ones I usually watch.

 

[KBA]

Jake, those are certainly great points. I do hope to see more multi blades and locks being produced, but will they sell? Will there be an interest as, like you said, people are being more exposed to modern knives daily than that of Case and traditional. I do see your points and agree though.

David, I actaully recall seeing his work before, after looking him up. I certainly need to study his work more.

Boy&hisdogs, I agree technology has changed the community. I would have more money and probably only two knives that would be of less quality if I had not saught out the forum. Yet, has it really changed the knife production and the knives themselves, or just the community?

One caution, youtube critics and reviews tend to develop relationships to the dealers and makers. Bias can form and blindness to ones own ego can interfer with honest reviews. I for one often mute them so I can just see the knives. They certainly have their influence in marketing and to the unexposed. I can certainly see how the influence the hobby. Im not saying all are bias.

 

[supratentorial]

Would they sell is a good question and there are lots of variables. The Remington is such a popular pattern that it is widely copied among traditional knife manufacturers already and a large percentage of the entire category of modern knives is a very loose reinterpretation of folding hunters.

The Spyderco Baby Jess Horn is pretty close to what I had in mind.... except for the hole and clip.... also, I'm not sure if it can be taken apart easily. It gets the size right. And it has a nice thin full flat grind. Jess Horn's knife was an interpretation of the Remington. The proportions are a bit different than a Remington.

The Spyderco Slysz Bowie is inspired by traditional knives and there hopefully will be a Slysz Swayback sometime in the next year or so. But his designs are more modern than what I have in mind. And the proportions are also different than the oldies.

I'd like to see modern knife makers go back to the old catalogs and collections of old knives (that's how knives are reborn, not copied from another modern copy) and rebirth those old patterns like the R1306, barlow, eureka jack, etc. Bring them back in the same original proportions with modern construction and steels.

Now... would a knife that isn't one hand opening sell as well? The Mnandi is pretty popular and it has a nick. ...but some folks push the blade open. Maybe make it pinchable... or make the blade easy to push open.

Would they sell as well if clipless? Don't know. I suppose a clip could be removed or added later.

 

[boy&hisdogs]

Boy&hisdogs, I agree technology has changed the community. I would have more money and probably only two knives that would be of less quality if I had not saught out the forum. Yet, has it really changed the knife production and the knives themselves, or just the community?

One caution, youtube critics and reviews tend to develop relationships to the dealers and makers. Bias can form and blindness to ones own ego can interfer with honest reviews. I for one often mute them so I can just see the knives. They certainly have their influence in marketing and to the unexposed. I can certainly see how the influence the hobby. Im not saying all are bias.

That is a very good point about the reviewers, but I was talking about knife makers and knife making videos. The more accessible the "how-to" information is, the more approachable the knife making hobby becomes. The more amateur knife makers we have, the more ideas will bounce around and the greater chances we have of someone going pro (either as a custom maker or a designer for a brand) and inventing the next big thing.

I too usually ignore review videos unless I'm just watching for fun. The low-budget ones are just bad and the higher budget ones might have a bias. But if a picture is worth a thousand words, a video (even on mute) is worth a thousand pictures.