Tool Steels: O1, A2 or D2

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Dec 20, 2005
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Just thought that it would be an interesting poll, which one would you say was best for an EDC utility knife?

1. O1 (half the edge retention of D2, however it is the toughest)

2. A2 (middle of the road)

3. D2 (about double the edge retention of O1, least tough)

:)
 
Redguy said:
No disrespect meant, but is O1 really tougher than A2 at their usual hardness?

No :

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/graphA2vsO1.jpg

As for edge retention, it depends on the blade angles and what is being cut. It doesn't equal wear resistance, for which D2 is much higher than A2 and O1. It can also be influenced by hardness and strength, grain and carbide size, toughness and corrosion resistance.

-Cliff
 
I have no experience with O1, but I really like the edge I can get with A2.
 
I would pick A2 as being the toughest, but what the heck do I know?
 
I'd take D2 over the other two just for the rust and corrosion resistance it has going for it. The edge retention is better too though. 01 and A2 rust from looking at them. At least D2 is near stainless in that aspect but with all the benefits of a good cutter like other carbon steels..

STR
 
I mabey mistaken , but from what I read here on the forums that A-2 is more rust resistant than previously thought. Granted it is not stainless or even semi-stainless, but rust less than carbon and other tool steels, except D2. I would like to know for sure if anyone can shed some light on this. Thanks. How is edge forming and retention?:D
 
A2 is much more corrosion resistant than O1, they are not in the same class. O1 can patina while you are cutting something, A2 doesn't tend to at all. A2 gets the corrosion resistance from the same thing which makes it air hardening over O1, the increased chromium. INFI is similar for the same reasons.

-Cliff
 
I posted in the General forum that I am receiving a Livesay Woo in A-2, so if it has the Kalgard coating it should be fairly corrosion resistant? I am very interested in A-2 steel for the fact I don't have any and want to know what to expect and how to care for it. I love the idea of its toughness and edge forming ability. I apologize if I hijacked this thread I just find the subject interesting and informational. Thanks.:D
 
Seems to me that, unless you really hate touching up edges or use it really hard, the practical differences between them would be nil. A lot of people get hung up on slight differences between superior steels, but if they're only opening their mail, preparing food, cutting up some boxes, etc. they're not doing anything that would really REQUIRE a super-steel. That is, unless you're trying to go without sharpening for a year...
 
Cliff Stamp said:
No :

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/graphA2vsO1.jpg

As for edge retention, it depends on the blade angles and what is being cut. It doesn't equal wear resistance, for which D2 is much higher than A2 and O1. It can also be influenced by hardness and strength, grain and carbide size, toughness and corrosion resistance.

-Cliff

But isn't that graph deformation (deflection) and not shock (impact toughness)?

Since we are at it: how does 5160 compare to those steels in terms of toughness?
 
Danbo said:
I would pick A2 as being the toughest, but what the heck do I know?
You're right Danbo. I did a little experiment with a piece of A2 I heat treated. I laid it on my anvil and beat it with a 3 lb. drill hammer. It didn't budge. It's definately tough and maintains a high hardness too.
Scott
 
It's for an EDC utility knife.

So I'd go with D2 for its rust and corrosion resistance as STR said,

and A2 - but only in a coated blade. Otherwise the co. that makes it will have all these people who didn't bother to read about the steel's properties complaining and sending their knives back etc.
 
fulloflead said:
That is, unless you're trying to go without sharpening for a year...

In general, you would have to have really low tolerances for sharpness to even last more than a month, assuming you use the knife significantly. I sharpen kitchen knives when they start to slide at all on tomatoes or won't push right down into potatos without resistance. The easier they cut the faster and safer it is to use them. I don't usually sharpen any less with better steels, I just run more acute profiles and maintain a higher level of sharpness. The really high end blades I have rarely go below shaving and almost never below paper slicing unless I was doing something really abrasive like peeling a lot of fresh vegetables (local garden, they are not washed and thus it is similar to digging).

HoB said:
But isn't that graph deformation (deflection) and not shock (impact toughness)?

Yes, it shows both strength and ductility and both are higher. I am researching impact toughness now, torsional, charpy and izod, notched and unnotched for various steels. Some steels are notch sensitive some are not thus you can have different rankings, then there is torsional vs charpy/izod and parallel/perpendicular grain (not for torsional).

Since we are at it: how does 5160 compare to those steels in terms of toughness?

Much tougher for a vew reasons (lathe vs plate martensite and lack of heavy primary carbides), the data on carbon and alloy steels isn't as exhaustive as it is for tools steels for which there are many reference books. In regards to impacts, O1 can be spring drawn on the spine and bainited far easier than A2, thus a differential O1 blade can be tougher than an A2 full hard blade, though A2 should have better edge stability.

Razorback, assuming you were just hitting the flat with the steel layed on the anvil, you eliminated one of the major sources of impact strains which is the torque. I can take the piece of the Green Beret for example and lay it flat on a concrete step and hit it with the poll of a fiskars axe hard enough so that the step shatters under the blade, but the blade itself is fine (lost it on the sixth hit as it buried itself in a drift, I'll find it in the spring I'd imagine). Were your D2 and O1 blades shattering readily under similar impacts? Try locking the blades in a fixture and perform a charpy/izod style impact and sharpening the blades and impacting them off of something hard and checking for extent of deformation/fracture.

-Cliff
 
Personnally, I like all three. A2 is tough and you can get it scary sharp with little effort. D2 takes a little more time to get it scary sharp, but it holds that edge a bit better than A2, and it is semi-corrosion resistant. It will snap though, if you try and use it like a pry bar. My experience with O1 is limited to a couple of customs. It takes a good edge and keeps it pretty well, but it does rust easily, like by just holding it in a slightly sweaty hand. It resharpens fast too.
 
yes ,m2 is better than d2.
but t1( 18%w ) is the best one ,better than m2.
i am involving in wood & metal work.
for making planar knife for wood,t1 >m2>d2>ds tool steel.
t1 especially for very hard exotic hard wood.
as d2 has higer chromium content,d2 do not get rust easily.
 
How are you heat treating the T1? Have you tried any of the high alloy CPM steels? Have you had to adjust the angles of any of the blades for optimal performance?

-Cliff
 
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