Toothy edge performing better than I thought.

M

MichaelMyers

Joined
Dec 10, 2015
Messages
235
With all the talk that they do badly with push cuts and chopping I was surprised what a well honed toothy edge right off a 280grit stone can do.

This blade originally had a semi polished stropped edge. However while very sharp it didn't bite to well when slicing some materials. Gave it a toothy edge and it still performs as good or better than before in these type of cuts.

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I am not surprised.

Provided the wire edge is really taken out, without rounding off the apex, they are just better edges.

Gaston
 
I prefer mirror polished edges, even up to 10000 grit + using water stones or sub micro diamond lapping paste or something on my knives. Something about them seems beautiful to me, and they function amazingly well for all cutting tasks - in my experience.
Plus you can really appreciate all the work you put into it.
I use both though, and I keep my options open, as well as my mind, rather than letting my preference limit me.
I like toothy edges too and have a few on some larger knives. They are easier to maintain and work well enough.

I am glad for you that it works on that knife so well.
I find that to really work on a fine edge, you need to make sure your angle is consistent enough and really make sure you spend a lot of time.
I often spend an entire day on one knife because I go "ocd" on it as they say. Making sure it is perfect, which is hard using lansky system or regular stones/water stones using your hands the old fashioned way - especially for a guy who has had carpel tunnel and arthritis since he was like 12.
Even though your going toothy you should consider stropping with a black compound or something to touch up a toothy edge.
I find that doing so on toothy edges actually creates larger gaps, with more smoothed out changes between. The convex helps for push cutting I think too but don't quote me on that one. (I look at every edge under a USB microscope while I work on them usually.

I really like that knife too, I've been looking into getting a similar type of knife lately as since my last collection was removed from my possession by theft - I don't own a very good bowie knife anymore.
Not super expensive, but not cheap either. I've heard good things about that model from CS, but never had one my self.

What are you sharpening with if I may ask?
 
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I used a lansky 280 grit stone held free hand. However its a bit worn in so the finish isn't that coarse as the grit suggest.

I like your description of the mirror polished edges. Perhaps I rounded my apex too much by stropping. I want to experiment with polish edge again with a higher grit waterstone, a more acute edge angle and minimal stropping to see if I can better my current results.
 
Understand the difference between sharpness and refinement is a key step in sharpening. I see you have passed the test too :)
 
I've had amazing results with even just cheap materials

The first time I really started getting mirror edges that functioned well, I was simply using Lansky diamond stones to start, then after the fine I would hit it with the 1000 grit Ceramic (yellow plastic holder) - then the "Sapphire stone"
After this I had a set of 7 strops, 6 of them had colored compound from ENKAY that was very difficult to get onto them, I spent a lot of time with a heat gun working them onto those strops.
The last one is just plain leather.
I would go over the blade from black to brown, to white, to green to red to blue. Then finish with leather.
I would not spend to much time in one spot, and would actually strop at a slight angle so as not to great too large a dip of convex.
Looked great under a microscope even. Those little nicks still provide a sawing action from what I understand but don't quote me on that.
I had some diamond lapping pastes and strops to match but most of my really nice stuff was stolen some time ago.
I tell you for the little amount of money the lansky stuff costs, you get a lot.
The angle is not perfect if you follow their instructions, I would mark on my blade where I was contacting with the clamp, and would not flip the clamp but rather flip the blade. I would also move the blade if the stone got too far from the clamp, so that the angle would be more what you intend.
You can measure it and check before you start working actually.
And if you have a good laser you can actually measure the blade when you are done - look it up, or better you could actually buy a laser Gonimeter and do it the way the pros do.

Not that you have to, a basic toothy edge or fine edge works great, and they have their purposes, you could even have half the blade toothy and half the blade mirror edged just to have a sort of dual functionality, but without having to have serrations on your blade :P

Also you can touch up that worn stone to get back to the original grit. They make stones for working on stones a resurfacing them or making them flat. As well I have heard the back end of ceramic tile works great, or even the sidewalk.
 
MichaelMyers said:
I used a lansky 280 grit stone held free hand. However its a bit worn in so the finish isn't that coarse as the grit suggest.

I like your description of the mirror polished edges. Perhaps I rounded my apex too much by stropping. I want to experiment with polish edge again with a higher grit waterstone, a more acute edge angle and minimal stropping to see if I can better my current results.
Click to expand...

Keep at it. You'll learn a lot, some of which supports 'conventional wisdom' and plenty that does not.
 
I put on a ~30 degree inclusive edge on a Western Bowie with a coarse india stone that can pop hairs even after chopping all manner of wood.

Connor
 
Cyber_Demigod said:
I've had amazing results with even just cheap materials


The first time I really started getting mirror edges that functioned well, I was simply using Lansky diamond stones to start, then after the fine I would hit it with the 1000 grit Ceramic (yellow plastic holder) - then the "Sapphire stone"
After this I had a set of 7 strops, 6 of them had colored compound from ENKAY that was very difficult to get onto them, I spent a lot of time with a heat gun working them onto those strops.
The last one is just plain leather.
I would go over the blade from black to brown, to white, to green to red to blue. Then finish with leather.
I would not spend to much time in one spot, and would actually strop at a slight angle so as not to great too large a dip of convex.
Looked great under a microscope even. Those little nicks still provide a sawing action from what I understand but don't quote me on that.
I had some diamond lapping pastes and strops to match but most of my really nice stuff was stolen some time ago.
I tell you for the little amount of money the lansky stuff costs, you get a lot.
The angle is not perfect if you follow their instructions, I would mark on my blade where I was contacting with the clamp, and would not flip the clamp but rather flip the blade. I would also move the blade if the stone got too far from the clamp, so that the angle would be more what you intend.
You can measure it and check before you start working actually.
And if you have a good laser you can actually measure the blade when you are done - look it up, or better you could actually buy a laser Gonimeter and do it the way the pros do.

Not that you have to, a basic toothy edge or fine edge works great, and they have their purposes, you could even have half the blade toothy and half the blade mirror edged just to have a sort of dual functionality, but without having to have serrations on your blade :P

Also you can touch up that worn stone to get back to the original grit. They make stones for working on stones a resurfacing them or making them flat. As well I have heard the back end of ceramic tile works great, or even the sidewalk.
Click to expand...

Yes I want to know how to make my stone cut like new again. Wouldn't ribbing it with another stone just wear it out further or glaze the surface?
 
MichaelMyers said:
Yes I want to know how to make my stone cut like new again. Wouldn't ribbing it with another stone just wear it out further or glaze the surface?
Click to expand...

Yes and no, it depends on how long you're rubbing, if you're using lube, the difference in grits between stones, and if new grit is being released.

See straighten/flatten out a lansky stone

If you take something pointy,
a nail or a screw (or just the tip of a knife you don't care about),
and scratch the surface of your lansky stone,
you can see the stone change color where you scratched (whiteish lines)

What you're doing is conditioning the stone,
you're deglazing/unloading the stone the hard way,
you're breaking the stone bond,
you're releasing/liberating fresh/new/unworn abrasive particles

If you touch the white lines you'll see its sand , it sticks to your finger, dont get it in your eyes :)

If your lansky stone is flat and has no dishing then scratching it with a nail is adequate to condition the stone and get it cutting like new.

When you rub two stones together for a short time the same thing can happen,
you can release new abrasive particles that are ready to cut,
but if you keep if you keep rubbing the stones longer than 10-20 seconds
then you will begin to wear the stones

If you're not using lubrication (water at least) the stones will wear/glaze/load
If neither stone is releasing grit the coarser one will begin to wear/glaze/load first,
"Ideally" for conditioning one stone should be slightly coarser than the other ,
for example 150 to condition 220

wearing is not important if you're just flattening the stones,
fine sand, loose grit abrasives... just speeds up flattening of stone
its like lots of nail points scratching at the stone, high pressure breaks the bonds,
just remember to then condition with fresh/conditioned abrasive for 10-20 seconds afterwards

Like I say in straighten/flatten out a lansky stone I find a nail or piece of hacksaw adequate to raise a little slurry :)
 
Tried bucketstove's suggestion last night. Applied some oil on my lansky medium stone. Used the sharp point of a coarse diamond file and scratch up the surface then used the half round side of the file and give it a good 10 sec rub in circular motion. Then cleaned with oil. My stone feels like new again. And it work greats. Put a screaming newsprint slicing edge on my bowie machete in minutes. Thanks again.
 
MichaelMyers said:
Tried bucketstove's suggestion last night. Applied some oil on my lansky medium stone. Used the sharp point of a coarse diamond file and scratch up the surface then used the half round side of the file and give it a good 10 sec rub in circular motion. Then cleaned with oil. My stone feels like new again. And it work greats. Put a screaming newsprint slicing edge on my bowie machete in minutes. Thanks again.
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Congratulations, I, um ... glad it worked, next time use a nail please :)
you can use the nail liberated grit stuck to the stone
to sharpen a knife and condition the rest of the stone at the same time


save the files for file work
 
jpm2 said:
Guess it depends on income, $1 per file is inexpensive for me.
Click to expand...
Maybe not :)
maybe hes talking about the diamond file ... all the ones home depot sells are way more than $1 (10 and up)
comparatively on ebay a lansky medium stone can be bought for around $8 shipping included

A sharp/pointy rock or broken blade
or nail is basically free or less than $0.02 (2 cents)
and it does the job
like the saying says a penny saved is a penny earned :)

but maybe its an old/worn file ... or a nail was last seen long ago in a closet far far away :D
 
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