toothy or no toothy?

sharp_edge

sharp_edge

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I saw lots of folks recommend a toothy yet sharp edge and I understand it is a better choice for cutting things like cardboard boxes. For tasks like peeling apples which require push cutting, is it true that a highly polished (i.e., less toothy) edge should be preferred?
 
For pressure cutting - chopping, shaving, carving - a higher polish works a lot better. For draw cutting, a coarse edge works a lot better. Something in between works best for general use.

I actually prefer a higher polish for cutting boxes, though either will work fine.
 
I also prefer a polished edge for dismantling cardboard boxes because I like the effortless zip through effect. But for opening packages the bite of an edge around 500grit(or less) is great.
I have some of my edc's sharpen with 325 Dmt and strop on hanging leather with paste and keeping the "knifenuttism" away is an unbeatable cutting edge, but mind that is not at all a trick show edge, it will cut printer paper beautifully and slice phonebookbpaper but doesn't have the Wow effect of popping hair or whittling beard hair, etc.
For peeling fruit you learn to give a slight slicing motion to your hand, quite dangerous at the beginning because the edge seems stuck and suddenly glides through towards your unaware and innocent thumb
 
Toothy for me!!!

I like a blade with bite on fibrous medium like sisal rope and plastic packaging and cardboard. Plus it's fast and easy to reshape with a nice soup bowl or coffee mug. I don't like the way a polished edge slides on some stuff.
 
HeavyHanded said:
For pressure cutting - chopping, shaving, carving - a higher polish works a lot better. For draw cutting, a coarse edge works a lot better. Something in between works best for general use.

I actually prefer a higher polish for cutting boxes, though either will work fine.
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That's what I've found as well. I've seen a lot of these threads over my years on BF so, a while back when I was still working at the warehouse, I decided to try out different edges on the materials I cut at work and at home. I used a D2 Keith Murr fixed blade and an S30V Para 2 because both of them had double beveled edges as opposed to a convex edge or a single beveled Emerson edge.

I discovered first, that 99% of my cutting is done with draw cuts. I don't process food with my carry knives so that kind of cutting, which is mostly push cutting, is out. I cut cardboard, packing tape, zip ties, industrial pallet strapping material, computer cabling, dog food & chicken feed bags, plant stems, kill ticks (push cutting), a small amount of wood shaving or shaping, open blister packs (puncturing with the tip then drawing through the plastic), and probably a few other things that I've forgotten about.

The other thing I found is just what HH said. For my kinds of cutting a sharp but toothier blade cuts quicker through most of the things I cut. That's just for me and what I do with a knife, not for everybody's cutting chores. A polished edge may last longer, but I don't really care how long an edge lasts since I'm going to touch up a knife in the evening if I use it during the day.

One more thing that impressed me when I was doing this experiment... a properly sharpened (no burr and a good sharp edge) Para 2 in boring old S30V is one of the best "everyday-whatever-whenever" knives on the market. Mine has held its own against $500 mid-techs in cutting performance and ease of maintenance. If I carry a Spyderco these days it's a Para 2 with a somewhat toothy edge.
 
For me it's a coarser edge around 400 grit. :)

Some tend to like different things (polished edges) for various reasons, but for me it provides a better balanced all around edge that lasts a VERY LONG time.

And from years of testing I found that the coarser finish will hold and edge for a much longer time than the finer polished edges.

From my data I have seen in the range of 400% to 500% increase in edge retention using coarser edges, same knives, same media, controlled testing over a large variety of knives/steels.
 
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It is easy enough to try both. I recommend that you try both. I have been going back and forth on my Manix S110V and pretty much prefer polished for everything.

Depends on the knife and the steel. I wouldn't have thought that. And pretty much everybody around here who knows more than I do recommend toothy for S110V.

Examples:
I got a Case Trapper in their stainless. It came quite toothy. This was some time ago and I thought, back then, that any blade edge worth using was polished. I figured I would use it a day or two until it got dull or I could not stand it any more then I would "sharpen it right". Turns out it was sharpened right. It just kept cutting and cutting and it was just great. I assume it was ground fairly coarse on a belt then polished right on the edge with an abrasive loaded mop wheel. For that knife it worked.

Then I get the Manix and it was toothy but not very sharp. I figure hey they know about this steel, I don't, I will use it as is . . . probably turn out like the Case.
Nope
Uninspired edge out to the box. Didn't last long at all and it was dull. I tried stropping. Too dull or hard to make a difference.

Once I sharpened it on the Edge Pro jig and polished it on that jig the edge came alive. Didn't last long though. I went back to toothy. Sucked. Went back to polished.

For cardboard I prefer a box knife and the ultra thin blade (old school standard Stanley blade) before everything had to be "Heavy Duty". BS . . . the thin , 0.4mm blade cuts circles around the "Heavy Duty". BS.

What makes a significant dif is round the transition at the back of the grind bevel and polish the sides. Maybe a bit of candle wax rubbed on the sides of the blade.

Careful you don't cut your leg off using it ! It will surprise you.

For the most part, since I don't cut dirty rope much, I only grin when I am using a polished blade.
 
I like polished-toothy edge. Using a coarse stone and fine stone or coarse stone and strop to create such an edge. It's exactly like it sounds, it's both coarse and polished so a little bit of the best of both worlds.
 
Ankerson said:
For me it's a coarser edge around 400 grit. :)

Some tend to like different things (polished edges) for various reasons, but for me it provides a better balanced all around edge that lasts a VERY LONG time.

And from years of testing I found that the coarser finish will hold and edge for a much longer time than the finer polished edges.

From my data I have seen in the range of 400% to 500% increase in edge retention using coarser edges, same knives, same media, controlled testing over a large variety of knives/steels.
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Agreed. Only I sharpen mine to around 280-300 grit. For some of my general purpose blades I'll sharpen those to around 150 grit. Most customers blades to around 400 grit on a Norton India. DM
 
A Red DMT puts about the right edge on one for me.

It will shave readily but has enough tooth to it to work on draw cuts.
 
Jason B. said:
I like polished-toothy edge. Using a coarse stone and fine stone or coarse stone and strop to create such an edge. It's exactly like it sounds, it's both coarse and polished so a little bit of the best of both worlds.
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This ^ that's also what most factories put on their knives as well usually 220 grit belt the some sort of rubber wheel or stropping .

Personally that's why I love my dmt especially the 8000 . It doesn't behave like a 8k edge . It's refined enough to push cut ,yet toothy enough to do well on things that a polished edge may want to slide off of .

Most of the time I'll go dmt xxc and call it a day no stropping nothing it can pop arm hair and I'm good to go . Of course my edc needs may be very different from your so it's hard to tell you what's best for your needs. Technique is another thing ,depending on how you use a knife is also a factor in what kind of edge you need.
 
I used to waste lots of time honing to finer grits but now a 320 grit "toothy" edge is plenty good enough for use in my kitchen. On things like meat a toothy edge is great.
 
I always prefer a polished edge over toothy.

I'm going to guess that most people who are good/decent at sharpening will prefer a polished since it performs much better than toothy, but depends on what you're cutting too.
 
Jason B. said:
I like polished-toothy edge. Using a coarse stone and fine stone or coarse stone and strop to create such an edge. It's exactly like it sounds, it's both coarse and polished so a little bit of the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...

I have been playing around with this, but would love to know specifically what you use, especially if you are using water stones.

My process has been finishing on light, edge leading strokes on 300 grit diamond hones with my KME. I then draw the edge through a dowel to make sure that no burr is left, then I give it a few (2 or 3) passes on my Stropman strop with the fine green compound.

One thing I have found is that stropping, while great at bringing back a dull edge, very quickly removes the "toothiness" of my edges.
 
My finishing preference for general use is eze-lap diamond fine, stated as 600 grit - what grit they go by I don't know.
 
Any indication of a grit in regard of the polished or toothy result should to be mentionned with the sharpening angle.

More acute the edge angle deeper the serrations.

dantzk.
 
Ankerson said:
For me it's a coarser edge around 400 grit. :)

Some tend to like different things (polished edges) for various reasons, but for me it provides a better balanced all around edge that lasts a VERY LONG time.

And from years of testing I found that the coarser finish will hold and edge for a much longer time than the finer polished edges.

From my data I have seen in the range of 400% to 500% increase in edge retention using coarser edges, same knives, same media, controlled testing over a large variety of knives/steels.
Click to expand...

I have nothing to add, except that I go up to 600G. (I have seen the same benefits)
But this should be a sticky.....there needs to be more of an understanding between a good retention, strong, easy to maintain edge, and art.
 
dantzk8 said:
Any indication of a grit in regard of the polished or toothy result should to be mentionned with the sharpening angle.
More acute the edge angle deeper the serrations. dantzk.
Click to expand...
The term grit seems to have no standard, it's all over the place.
For instance, 400 can range from 22 to 45 micron according to this Grand Unified Grit Chart, a 100% size range difference. Looking in the 22 to 45 micron range of the chart, you can find designations from 240 to 800.
 
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