TOPS DART vs TOPS Tom Brown Tracker 1 Chopping Test

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Feb 8, 2011
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I headed out to my buddy Zechs today and we tested his tracker vs the Dart I have and the Dart wins as far as chopping goes. The tracker does win with battoning by a slim margin. We are going to test the 2 out against each other doing shavings and feathersticks and carving out a bow drill set.

Thanks Bill

Chopping test
[video=youtube;CYRziZHIQPc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYRziZHIQPc[/video]
 
The DART is a heck of a chopper for its size. It chops like a bigger knife than it is.
 
I have tested the TOPS Tracker on Mesquite wood...and it is NOT a good chopper at all..

In fact--it is not Good at anything IMEO(In my expert opinion)

It was designed to be able to do many things--and it can---but it does none of them very well.

The factory edges are way too thick and once thinned out it cuts/chops much better--but not compared to a knife designed better.

On other forums --there is a LOT of love for the Tracker.Most here will agree with me and the statements I posted above...but to each his own.

The TOPS Dart looks like it would chop very well---and if MISTWALKER said it does--that's good enough for me.

Bryan Breeden makes a WSK that looks like it was designed to make up for the shortcomings in the TOPS Tracker

Looking forward to your next video!!!

Thanks for posting

Dr.Bill
 
The factory edges are way too thick and once thinned out it cuts/chops much better--but not compared to a knife designed better.

The knife, originally made by Dave Beck, was a masterpiece. Extremely well thought out and executed perfectly, it is an amazing knife. It's huge, but perfectly balanced so it feels weightless in the hand. The edges are ground properly, and they cut, slice, and chop like a machine.

TOPS took an excellent design and ruined it with super thick edges. People have convexed the upper, axe like portion and put a thinner grind on the bottom and made a usable knife, but it requires removing a lot of material.
 
I have a Tom Brown with a reground blade from Bryan. With the upgrade from Bryan the knife performs more cutting and chopping tasks a lot better.
 
Hi all,

A tracker knife with correct grinds and sharpening will make a great chopper as far a smaller knife goes.
The tops version sucks right from the factory. Who ever is grinding them needs to be taught how to grind better. It does not take much to regrind them , when someone sends one to me to be reground, so it could not take that much to do it right the first time. Unless there is some major chips in the blade it has not taken me more than just a few minutes to do the regrind on the tops tracker knives that have been sent to me.

It also depends on your skill level with cutting and chopping. Remember the tracker design is still a edge
whether that edge is 1" long or 10" long, so it has a hook in it along that edge. that is it!!!

Just like any other knife edge, if the edge is sharp it will cut.

Here is a little video I did with my first tracker knife version that I made just a couple of months back.

Just click on the video and it should play.





Agian everyones skill level with a cutting tool is different.


If your friend would like his Tops tracker to be reground so it cuts like a knife should. Let me know I will be happy to regrind it so that is cuts like a knife should.

Bryan
 
I just posted and then read what mattew sb posted. Matt, I mean no disrespect to you but I have know what do you mean by
it will take removing a lot of material?
I use a 60 grit belt ceramic belt for a minute or so and then go to a 80 grit trizac belt
just to remove the 60 grit scratches and smooth of the edge. then I go to a 120 trizac and the devolpe the burr then onto a felt polishing belt and then it is done and slicing anc cutting like a knife should. We are talking just a few thousanths of a inch.
I mean it is hardly nothing in regrinding.

That is why I said it could be done at the Tops factory right the first time it would just take them a few more minutes and it would be right on.

Bryan
 
I just posted and then read what mattew sb posted. Matt, I mean no disrespect to you but I have know what do you mean by
it will take removing a lot of material?
I use a 60 grit belt ceramic belt for a minute or so and then go to a 80 grit trizac belt
just to remove the 60 grit scratches and smooth of the edge. then I go to a 120 trizac and the devolpe the burr then onto a felt polishing belt and then it is done and slicing anc cutting like a knife should. We are talking just a few thousanths of a inch.
I mean it is hardly nothing in regrinding.

That is why I said it could be done at the Tops factory right the first time it would just take them a few more minutes and it would be right on.

Bryan

This is what I was thinking about the re-grind. There are two things that will seriously inhibit chopping ability, steep edge grinds designed to be tough above all else, and heavily textured coatings, or any coatings really, and TOPS does both. With just a few thousandths removed you solve a lot of that. I had an Ontario Marine Raider Bowie once. It sucked in chopping compared to a Western W49 I had, so I got rid of it. The person I sold it to stripped it and re-sharpened the edge and it performed like a totally different knife. Companies are just in a quandary when it comes to high carbon steels. If they don't coat them then they rust and people complain.
 
I have a Tom Brown with a reground blade from Bryan. With the upgrade from Bryan the knife performs more cutting and chopping tasks a lot better.

A big + 1

........A tracker knife with correct grinds and sharpening will make a great chopper as far a smaller knife goes....The tops version sucks right from the factory.......It also depends on your skill level with cutting and chopping.....Agian everyones skill level with a cutting tool is different.......If your friend would like his Tops tracker to be reground so it cuts like a knife should. Let me know I will be happy to regrind it so that is cuts like a knife should....

Thanks Bryan. your grind make my TBT a new beast :D

IMGP6462_zps1475edb0.jpg


There is much to learn to use difference tool/grind in the woods. What a wonderful journey!

Thanks to the OP for the comparison :thumbup:
 
Your welcome sunnybunny.

hey mistwalker, I bet with a regrind and being stripped that Marine Raider cut like a knife should.

Bryan
 
BigBill nice job with the video. I just got a Buck Reaper. it is a little like a poor man's DART. I have not really gave it a good work out yet.
Bryan you shouldd make a knife like the DART so we could do a fair head to head.... Let me know when your done with the DART like knife.
 
Hahaha, the DART is a poor man's Warhawk, which is a beautiful piece of work.
 
The DART is the 5160 version, its being tested over on BCUSA.

[video=youtube;fsz3ZL9PrmA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsz3ZL9PrmA[/video]
 
The TOPS Dart looks like it would chop very well---and if MISTWALKER said it does--that's good enough for me.


Dr.Bill


The DART is the 5160 version, its being tested over on BCUSA.


The S30V version does very well. I have experienced TOP's 5160 before and see no reason the 5160 version wouldn't do as well in every aspect save corrosion resistance in areas where the steel is exposed. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/836560-TOPS-D-a-r-t-(s30v)?highlight=TOPS+DART+S30V


Hahaha, the DART is a poor man's Warhawk, which is a beautiful piece of work.

Trace does really nice work!


hey mistwalker, I bet with a regrind and being stripped that Marine Raider cut like a knife should.

Bryan

It did indeed, I regretted parting with it at that point. The coating Ontario was using at the time gut sort of "gummy" when it got hot and produced a lot of drag in chopping or cutting green limbs. It wouldn't cut cleanly through a 1 inch green sapling stock, but sailed through them after the strip and re-grind...
 
The knife, originally made by Dave Beck, was a masterpiece. Extremely well thought out and executed perfectly, it is an amazing knife. It's huge, but perfectly balanced so it feels weightless in the hand. The edges are ground properly, and they cut, slice, and chop like a machine.

TOPS took an excellent design and ruined it with super thick edges. People have convexed the upper, axe like portion and put a thinner grind on the bottom and made a usable knife, but it requires removing a lot of material.

I have tested the Beck WSK and it does Not chop as well as a knife of the same size designed for chopping-- (nor can any other WSK)---not even close.

The Koster WSK Model is better but a lot larger.

The design is a compromise---like a SAK.

It can do many things--but none of them REALLY well.
 
I have tested the Beck WSK and it does Not chop as well as a knife of the same size designed for chopping-- (nor can any other WSK)---not even close.

The Koster WSK Model is better but a lot larger.

The design is a compromise---like a SAK.

It can do many things--but none of them REALLY well.

Agreed with above---I have a fascination with this blade style (in so much as it's an interesting blip in the history of knife design) and own the Beck, Linger, Koster, Horan, and Martin versions, as well as having owned both the TOPS and RS6 versions before selling them off (the last two are indeed not on par with the others, though of course they cost far less), and it really achieves nothing special, cool and unique though it is. A far, FAR better configuration for a similar concept would be to skip the transition in blade height from one grind to the other (which means that the sweet spot for chopping would no longer be focused on a narrow little point) and just have the thickness of the knife increase dramatically toward the point, like Farid does with his choppers:
https://www.google.com/search?q=far...ms%2Fshowthread.php%2F958640-chopper;1024;768
This achieves the aim of forward balance far better, in that it does not interrupt the continuous cutting edge with a shelf, allowing the whole length of the knife to be used for scraping/planing, etc.; though it requires a truly massive amount of steel removal.

I managed to buy a Beck before the huge craze for them began (I didn't pay thousands of dollars) and as much as I do like it for what it is, it is a compromise. It sorta chops okay, can sorta skin (yes, I've tried it), can sorta make fuzz sticks, the hook works pretty well for rounding and the notching saw notches just fine. However, compared to something like a Siegle Hoodlum paired with a SAK, the WSK just gets left in the dust. Even without the SAK, I think I'd rather have the less complicated blade shape if I were actually "surviving" versus just screwing around in the woods.

The one thing I will say for--especially-- the Beck version is that the ergonomics for a chopping blade are absolutely phenomenal; incredibly comfortable in just about any position. If I could put that grip on a wide, leaf-shaped blade with a full flat grind, I'd have my perfect outdoor knife.
 
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I just posted and then read what mattew sb posted. Matt, I mean no disrespect to you but I have know what do you mean by
it will take removing a lot of material?
I use a 60 grit belt ceramic belt for a minute or so and then go to a 80 grit trizac belt
just to remove the 60 grit scratches and smooth of the edge. then I go to a 120 trizac and the devolpe the burr then onto a felt polishing belt and then it is done and slicing anc cutting like a knife should. We are talking just a few thousanths of a inch.
I mean it is hardly nothing in regrinding.

That is why I said it could be done at the Tops factory right the first time it would just take them a few more minutes and it would be right on.

Bryan

I'd never heard of anyone doing a TOPS Tracker regrind efficiently, I guess. I saw pictures of what one guy did and he really flattened out the middle part, and convexed the top section just like an axe.

I wasn't familiar with how you do it, though now I'm really thinking about buying another tracker and sending it your way. How much does the regrind cost? Is there any concern about the heat treat?


The one thing I will say for--especially-- the Beck version is that the ergonomics for a chopping blade are absolutely phenomenal; incredibly comfortable in just about any position. If I could put that grip on a wide, leaf-shaped blade with a full flat grind, I'd have my perfect outdoor knife.

Maybe I was confusing chopping ability with chopping comfort. I dislike chopping with a short blade, it feels wrong all over and seems to take a ton of effort for the results, but maybe I've just never used an ideal "chopper"?
 
Agreed with above---I have a fascination with this blade style (in so much as it's an interesting blip in the history of knife design) and own the Beck, Linger, Koster, Horan, and Martin versions, as well as having owned both the TOPS and RS6 versions before selling them off (the last two are indeed not on par with the others, though of course they cost far less), and it really achieves nothing special, cool and unique though it is. A far, FAR better configuration for a similar concept would be to skip the transition in blade height from one grind to the other (which means that the sweet spot for chopping would no longer be focused on a narrow little point) and just have the thickness of the knife increase dramatically toward the point, like Farid does with his choppers:
https://www.google.com/search?q=far...ms%2Fshowthread.php%2F958640-chopper;1024;768
This achieves the aim of forward balance far better, in that it does not interrupt the continuous cutting edge with a shelf, allowing the whole length of the knife to be used for scraping/planing, etc.; though it requires a truly massive amount of steel removal.

I managed to buy a Beck before the huge craze for them began (I didn't pay thousands of dollars) and as much as I do like it for what it is, it is a compromise. It sorta chops okay, can sorta skin (yes, I've tried it), can sorta make fuzz sticks, the hook works pretty well for rounding and the notching saw notches just fine. However, compared to something like a Siegle Hoodlum paired with a SAK, the WSK just gets left in the dust. Even without the SAK, I think I'd rather have the less complicated blade shape if I were actually "surviving" versus just screwing around in the woods.

The one thing I will say for--especially-- the Beck version is that the ergonomics for a chopping blade are absolutely phenomenal; incredibly comfortable in just about any position. If I could put that grip on a wide, leaf-shaped blade with a full flat grind, I'd have my perfect outdoor knife.

Excellent Answer!!!!
 
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