Tormach surface grinder ???

Alan Davis Knives

Alan Davis Knives

Knife Maker
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
2,249
Does anyone here have, or at least have experience with a Tormach PSG 612 surface grinder? I currently have a ko lee, but it is out in my barn which does not have a/c . I also have a small Sanford benchtop which I have been using mostly for nail nicks. Lately I have been using the surface grinder attachment on the tw 90 for most of my surface grinding which works ok, but takes a bit of time to set up every time I need it which can be 3 or 4 times a day. My main workshop with a/c is on a pier and beam foundation which will not support the 1200lb ko lee. I am seriously thinking about getting a Tormach because my main workshop which has a/c can support it, but it is quite expensive. Before I spend that kind of money I would like here from someone who has at least used one.

Thanks,
Alan
 
I haven't used one myself, but I do know two makers that have them, and seem to be pretty happy with them. However, I don't believe either of them have had or spent time on a large full-sized high end industrial SG, so take that into consideration, based on your expectations, I'm a bit of an SG snob, but I think the Tormach, from what I've heard, is a really great option for knifemaking, and if I had really limited space, I'd probably get one.

Honestly, most 6x12's, even the older, good brand ones, are pretty dinky, considering that, the Tormach looks nice, and has auto feed in a footprint that typically doesn't offer it.

I've heard one of my friend's run, over the phone, and his at least, sounds super smooth. He switched from a kind of beat up Boyar Shultz 612 that he couldn't ever get a super good finish with, and had great results, out of the box, with good quality stones.
 
John Grimsmo of Grimsmo knives has (and still uses as far as I know) one with a belt conversion, and I believe John Saunders (NYC CNC) has (or had) one, though I think they have an Okamato now, so I doubt the Tormach sees much use if he still has it. I also wanna say that Charlie Mike has their belt kit mounted on what I believe is a Grizzly SG, but I may be wrong.

Personally, I've never seen one in person or used it. I know a lot of machinists tend to think of Tormach as more of a hobby grade machine, though most of the Tormach guys defend it heavily. Old school machinists can be a bit crotchety though, so take that with a grain of salt. ;)
If you know how to use a surface grinder, I don't see why it wouldn't be more than adequate for knife making purposes (which is probably mostly what Tormach had in mind when they designed it), or small to medium sized machining jobs. Would I personally spend $5k+ on one? Probably not. These days I could get a much more robust machine for that kind of money or much less on the used market, but you already know that, and being that weight is a factor anyway, that pretty much rules a lot of those out in your case, I suppose.

If you're looking for a turn key machine that you know won't have any major issues out of the box, I'd say it's a safe bet. Is it the best bang for the buck? Debatable. Will it fit your needs? Most likely. If you do a lot of grinding, I'm sure you'll make your money back.
 
Yeah I think it's just the magic combination of; new with support, size, and auto feed, in a configuration that's typically not available.

You could definitely get 20 times the grinder used for the same price, but you've gotta understand the caveats.

In all fairness, Tormach is "hobby", or entry level grade equipment, but it's nice entry level equipment. Most of even the most expensive knifemaking specific equipment we use is, if you compare it to their big industrial analogues, but that doesn't mean it won't serve a custom makers needs. Compared to industry, at least in scale of production, and wear and tear on equipment, even the best, fulltime, custom maker is a "hobbyist" in that regard.

Only scenario I'd see myself buying this grinder is to shoe-horn into the V-berth of a sail-boat, but I've got 3 SG's and looking for another (bigger than my big one). I think it's probably a damn good option for most makers though, better than most of the "bench" models, and a more sure-thing than a used entry level toolroom SG or T&C grinder of unknown provenance. I think the 6x18 imports (Grizzlys, etc) are all around this price also right? If you don't need the chuck space, I bet the Tormachs are nicer.
 
Thanks for the input guys, it is greatly appreciated. I am certainly no expert on surface grinders and I am open to other suggestions as well. So far the only other surface grinder that I have found that would meet the weight constraints of a wood foundation are the smallest grizzly which is entirely manual and cost almost as much by the time you add the chuck. My barn has been around the 110 degree mark for the last month, so I try to avoid it as much as possible and would really like to have a surface grinder set up in the air conditioned shop. My biggest fear is spending $5k and it not being able to surface grind in a timely manner. Keep in mind I mostly make folders and will only being grinding one or two blades, springs/ lock bars/ back spacers at a time and an occasional small fixed blade. Thanks again!
 
For that type of money you could:
1) Get a generator for the barn. (It would be handy during power outages, too.)
2) Run power to the barn.
3) Build a small workshed next to the existing shop to house the ko lee and sandford.
4) Buy another TW-90 or a Bader and set the TW-90 surface grinder up as a dedicated surface grinder.

Every one of those will cost less and give you more versatility.
 
First question I would ask myself is the degree of accuracy from the current TW-90 SG attachment adequate for my purposes. If YES I would just buy another TW-90 dedicated to surface grinding, and if your main grinder goes down you have a back up. If the volume of surface grinding requires automation so you can step away for other tasks then I would consider other options.
 
You could also buy the TW SG attachment and put it on a cheaper KMG style grinder. That's what I did, but prefer a real SG with stone wheel. I do know one slipjoint maker who uses a TW SG attachment on every knife he makes and he makes a LOT!
 
knife to a gunfight said:
You could always dump $5k into air conditioning your barn. ;)
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I looked at that option first and may still go that route. However, it would be much more involved than just adding ac to the barn . It is a 25 year old pole barn which is not designed to be insulated, I would have to put real doors, frame out the walls to accept insulation, put a more water proof siding and repair the roof. Around $5000 plus the time involved just to make the building capable of being climate controlled.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
For that type of money you could:
1) Get a generator for the barn. (It would be handy during power outages, too.)
2) Run power to the barn.
3) Build a small workshed next to the existing shop to house the ko lee and sandford.
4) Buy another TW-90 or a Bader and set the TW-90 surface grinder up as a dedicated surface grinder.

Every one of those will cost less and give you more versatility.
Click to expand...

I actually have power in the barn, the ko lee is operational, I am just trying to have a 2 axis surface grinder in the air conditioned shop to where I am not having to back and forth from the shop to barn every time I need to take a couple few thousandths off. Getting another tw 90 would be my first choice if the surface grinding attachment held the tolerances I am looking for, it does ok but always has a little bit of ripple from the belt bump that I spend quite a bit of time on the granite machinist block getting rid of.
 
Don Hanson III said:
You could also buy the TW SG attachment and put it on a cheaper KMG style grinder. That's what I did, but prefer a real SG with stone wheel. I do know one slipjoint maker who uses a TW SG attachment on every knife he makes and he makes a LOT!
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I do have the tw 90 surface grinding attachment and have several other grinders which I could leave it on, just looking for tighter tolerance and a little better finish without the belt bump.
 
After talking to Craig Brewer last night, he did give me another option that I am considering. He told me that he has a Boyer- Shultz 6x12 that only weighs about 650lbs which would certainly be doable with a little extra reinforcement. Not automated, but certainly more precise than the tw attachment if I can find a descent one.
 
Alan Davis Knives said:
I do have the tw 90 surface grinding attachment and have several other grinders which I could leave it on, just looking for tighter tolerance and a little better finish without the belt bump.
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I do understand wanting tighter tolerances, I just use the TW for rough stuff & quick stock reduction. I use an old 6x12 Delta Rockwell for precision & bet it weighs less than 650 lbs. They can be had for well less than a grand.
 
Don Hanson III said:
I do understand wanting tighter tolerances, I just use the TW for rough stuff & quick stock reduction. I use an old 6x12 Delta Rockwell for precision & bet it weighs less than 650 lbs. They can be had for well less than a grand.
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Thanks, I will add that to my list to keep an eye out for.
 
Alan Davis Knives said:
After talking to Craig Brewer last night, he did give me another option that I am considering. He told me that he has a Boyer- Shultz 6x12 that only weighs about 650lbs which would certainly be doable with a little extra reinforcement. Not automated, but certainly more precise than the tw attachment if I can find a descent one.
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Yeah, there are plenty of 612's in that size class, most are basically "large" bench units on a sheet metal stand that came with them.

Just make sure you run it, hear that the spindle bearings are quiet, and that there is no perceptible vibration when it's running, with your hand on the spindle, behind the wheel guard. Also make sure it has the original 3ph motor, and don't think about replacing it. These SG's use specially balanced motors matched to the spindles, and while you can occasionally get lucky with a replacement that runs smooth enough, it's almost always going to introduce more inaccuracy.


You should be able to find a BS 612 for $500 or so, in decent shape. They're pretty common, I have one I use just for cutting nail nicks and choil notches on slipjoints.
 
Hell, if you got access to the the crawl space, just reinforce the area for your existing grinder. It'll cost a few hundred.
 
I have a harig super 612 that works great if you find one of those. It’s manual, but I think they make an automatic too.
I made a belt conversion for it which was really easy, but I prefer the stone.
 
Alan Davis Knives said:
I actually have power in the barn, the ko lee is operational, I am just trying to have a 2 axis surface grinder in the air conditioned shop to where I am not having to back and forth from the shop to barn every time I need to take a couple few thousandths off. Getting another tw 90 would be my first choice if the surface grinding attachment held the tolerances I am looking for, it does ok but always has a little bit of ripple from the belt bump that I spend quite a bit of time on the granite machinist block getting rid of.
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I have the TW surface grinder and know exactly what you’re talking about regarding the ripple left on the finish, from the belt splice.

Travis gave me a couple tips that worked real well. One, take a diamond sanding sponge or something similar, and knock off all the abrasive grit on the other side of the belt splice.

The second tip is to use one of those trizact belts from 3m. The grit is layered real high on those and the belt splice doesn’t make the ripple on the finish. I just grind to the level grit I want, then use a trizact belt of the similar or higher grit, and then handstand from there

You might check Craigslist for used surface grinders. I’ve gotten two of them off of there. A Delta manual surface grinder and a Brown and Sharpe fully automatic surface grinder. I paid $200 for the brown and Sharpe and traded a chef knife for the Delta. I found them by putting an add in my city’s tool section on Craigslist. “Wanting to buy a surface grinder.” Oh and I put it in the “for sale” tool section. Probably not the right place to put it but it gets a ton of traffic. Way more than the “wanted” section.

I ended up selling the brown and sharp for $1200 and am still working on getting the Delta fixed. I’ll still probably still favor the TW surface grinder attachment for my KMG. It’s just so dang easy to setup and put away.
 
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