Torn on S30V

J85909266

J85909266

Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
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In the past I've disliked the steel because I've had it chip out for no good reason on multiple knives. I've actually held off buying customs because it's all they use, and I don't want the edge on my $500 knife chipping.

However, I was bored out in a park the other day, and had my Chinook II in S30V with me. I really love the knife. It's my favorite production folder I've ever owned so far, so I hadn't really given the edge a chance to chip out on me. I've actually been afraid of it. But, at the park, I saw this big, dead branch sticking out of a tree. It was about a inch and a half in diameter, and it was very hard and fairly freshly dead. Not brittle or rotted at all. I was overcome by the urge to test out my heavy duty, tank of a folder as it is referred to, and I decided to use the knife like a little hand axe and chop the branch off. It took some doing, and at the end my pivot had loosened considerably, but the edge was completly undamaged. In fact, it was still just as sharp as it was before I started, effortlessly shaving the hair off my arm.

I was shocked. I had completely expected the edge to be destroyed. Instead I got a demonstration of edge holding capabilities that I know none of my other knives could stand up to.

I really don't know what to think about the steel anymore. All I know is this:

I love my Chinook II.
 
I have a coupel of knives in S30V and all of them have chipped except for my Spyderco Manix (my only Spyderco in S30V). I have found that it seems like Spyderco may have a better heat treat or have the Rc set a little lower on their S30V because their the only ones that I dont here about chipping from much.
 
I have a Spyd Manix, Mini Manix, Chinook II, Military and Yojimbo ( also had a Paramili ) as well as Benchmade BM630, BM210 and a Ritter Mini and Ritter Standard grip, all with S30V.

Have not experienced any chipping whatsoever with any of the above and they have all cut lots of carboard, hard plastic strapping, batoned through hard and soft woods, chopped through copper wire, hit metal staples etc. Maybe I have been lucky !!!

I am quite sold on S30V, it takes a hair splitting edge and holds a very usable edge for a long time after it looses its shaving ability. A quick strop and its back to its shaving best again.
 
I currently own four knives in S30V. Two of Benchmade's 630 and Spyderco's Dodo and Military.

Chipping of negligible import on my first 630 (you can feel 'em sometimes with a thumbnail check). Doesn't annoy me as much any more, I just use the characteristic of this knife to advantage (fibrous materials and such). It might go away, too.

My opinion of the steel is indifferent at the moment. I look for other steels, but I look at the whole package more.
 
One thing to keep in mind as you increase the complexity of an alloy you also reduce the margin for error in processing it. S30V was designed to offer a package of properties that optimized the information I was given by many dozens of people in the knife making and knife using community. Proper attention to heat treatment is critical and proper heat treat procedures are published. While I worked for Crucible I would be sure to take time to discuss proper HT procedures with all who asked. There are also problems that can occur if improper abrasives are used with this alloy. In many cases the carbide type (VC) found in S30V are harder than many common abrasives and defects can be induced into the material if use of improper abrasives end up creating more heat than they should. Properly prepared S30V should outlast any stainless steel in general use. Like any material there is a basket of properties and yes you can find a specific alloy that might have one property that is better than S30v but you will be hard pressed to find an alloy that will do all that S30V will.
Overheating from grinding abuse can cause local reductions in toughness which may manifest itself in chipping.
Both transverse and longitudional toughness testing of the alloy using standardized Charpy toughness testing reveal it is much tougher than the other premium stainless steels and in the transverse direction is comparable to many high toughness tool steels.
Remember when you are buying a finished knife you are buying a system. Any material can be made to fail given the right (or wrong) conditions.

Dick Barber ( father of S30V)
 
I too am quite sold on S30V!! I have it on several knives, with NO problems with it at all!! Great stuff!!
 
Thanks, Dick. I've finally seen the issue set straight and in a way that meshes with my positive and negative experiences with S30V. I've come to believe that S30V is an excellent steel, but one that requires an excellent bladesmith.
 
Both of my S30V knives are Spydies. Neither of them have ever chipped out on me.
 
Good post Dick and, thanks for posting. We certainly appreciate your input on this as it helps us better
understand the complexities associated with this steel, as well as the issues unfolding. Unfortunately, we don't have a system in place to help us determine which vendors are properly processing the steel. So, we continue to buy at our own risk - though some vendors like Aeromedix have offered to replace any blade that chips. I am sure there are others too (Chris Reeve comes to mind). Actually, I think most current knife vendors offer stellar customer service in this regard which is a good thing.

I have 5 knives with S30V and, only my Spyderco FRN Native is chipping. I have only used it to open packages. So its tape and a little cardboard that is being cut. And it is chipping. To be honest, my other 4 knives have not been used much, if at all. Therefore it is too early to tell how these will fare. I like the S30V steel though and, the chipping (or should I say micro-chipping) is not real pronounced and should be correctable by sharpening. At this point I tend to hesitate on S30V bladed knives but, the chipping issue has not actually stopped me from buying one that I want....yet.

Where can one find these S30V heat treatment and general process procedures? Are they on line?
 
J85909266 said:
In the past I've disliked the steel because I've had it chip out for no good reason on multiple knives. I've actually held off buying customs because it's all they use, and I don't want the edge on my $500 knife chipping.

However, I was bored out in a park the other day, and had my Chinook II in S30V with me. I really love the knife. It's my favorite production folder I've ever owned so far, so I hadn't really given the edge a chance to chip out on me. I've actually been afraid of it. But, at the park, I saw this big, dead branch sticking out of a tree. It was about a inch and a half in diameter, and it was very hard and fairly freshly dead. Not brittle or rotted at all. I was overcome by the urge to test out my heavy duty, tank of a folder as it is referred to, and I decided to use the knife like a little hand axe and chop the branch off. It took some doing, and at the end my pivot had loosened considerably, but the edge was completly undamaged. In fact, it was still just as sharp as it was before I started, effortlessly shaving the hair off my arm.

I was shocked. I had completely expected the edge to be destroyed. Instead I got a demonstration of edge holding capabilities that I know none of my other knives could stand up to.

I really don't know what to think about the steel anymore. All I know is this:

I love my Chinook II.
Click to expand...

J85 -

Please don't be shocked, not good for your heart!

I have a simple question for you.

Why would Spyderco or any other company in the business of selling knives to the general public want to sell a knife that didn't hold up or use a steel type that wasn't up to the task? What would be their reason for making such a knife and what would it do to their reputation.

I think the most important thing when buying a knife is to get it from a seller who makes knives for their living. They have car payments, etc. like the rest of us and can't afford to dump junk on the public if they want to be around long.

I just received a "Military" s30v and whacked a bunch of branches this past weekend without any problems except for getting sap on the blade and having to clean it up.
 
Well, it finally happened to me. My Mini RSK1 chipped yesterday while opening up a plastic container. I've opened these types of containers before without a problem.

It's not a huge deal since I think it's a small chip (going to let a friend inspect it this weekend) and I know Aeromedix is great in regards to this problem. But it gave me a reason to break out the wallet and order a Benchmade 710 in D2 (3 minutes ago). :D
 
Personally, I dont buy knives in S30V. I dont need a pocket knife to do any chopping, for those tasks I use a hatchet.

I liked my VG-10 Spyderco steel for the most part, although it was more of a hassle to sharpen then I like, and I wasn't able to get that real hair popping edge I was looking for.

I've been carrying 440C from Benchmade recently (GASP! But wait! Thats a junk steel!) and I really like it. My edc tasks are nothing that 440C can't handle, and its a tried and true steel. It is able to be sharpened RAZOR sharp, and holds that edge well. I like it as an EDC steel. For larger tasks, I use larger knives.

Thats my world though, your EDC tasks may be a bit more extreme.
 
Never had a problem with my Spyderco S30V blades. Granted I only have 2, and just recently acquired my 2nd one. But I did carry my first Spyderco (a Military) since September 05, and I use it nearly everyday.

S30V = teh sex in my book.
 
I am starting to think that part of the reason all these "S30V Chipping" posts are popping up is due to the number of high end knives made with it and the theory that S30V is "THE" blade steel. The 2 S30V knives I have, have proven no different, in every-day use, than some of my knives in other steels. They have held an edge longer than some and are harder to sharpen than others.

Bottom line: Seems to be as long as the heat treat was done well and the edge geometry is good, it's a good steel for knives.

Then again, that is true for any steel.
 
rnhood said:
Good post Dick and, thanks for posting. We certainly appreciate your input on this as it helps us better
understand the complexities associated with this steel, as well as the issues unfolding. Unfortunately, we don't have a system in place to help us determine which vendors are properly processing the steel. So, we continue to buy at our own risk - though some vendors like Aeromedix have offered to replace any blade that chips. I am sure there are others too (Chris Reeve comes to mind). Actually, I think most current knife vendors offer stellar customer service in this regard which is a good thing.

I have 5 knives with S30V and, only my Spyderco FRN Native is chipping. I have only used it to open packages. So its tape and a little cardboard that is being cut. And it is chipping. To be honest, my other 4 knives have not been used much, if at all. Therefore it is too early to tell how these will fare. I like the S30V steel though and, the chipping (or should I say micro-chipping) is not real pronounced and should be correctable by sharpening. At this point I tend to hesitate on S30V bladed knives but, the chipping issue has not actually stopped me from buying one that I want....yet.

Where can one find these S30V heat treatment and general process procedures? Are they on line?
Click to expand...



If you check the crucible website www.crucibleservice.com and click on the knife steels link you can find a data sheet which describes the alloy and how to handle it.

If you have any other questions contact me.

RTB
 
DGG said:
J85 -

Please don't be shocked, not good for your heart!

I have a simple question for you.

Why would Spyderco or any other company in the business of selling knives to the general public want to sell a knife that didn't hold up or use a steel type that wasn't up to the task? What would be their reason for making such a knife and what would it do to their reputation.

I think the most important thing when buying a knife is to get it from a seller who makes knives for their living. They have car payments, etc. like the rest of us and can't afford to dump junk on the public if they want to be around long.

I just received a "Military" s30v and whacked a bunch of branches this past weekend without any problems except for getting sap on the blade and having to clean it up.
Click to expand...
I didn't mention that one of the knives that chipped out on me was a Spyderco Paramilitary. I used it to cut a couple of live corn stalks, and the edge was literally chipped visibly even at a distance all down the blade.

I got out my Caly Jr. in VG10 and finished the job with no issues.

I have a friend with a Native that has chipping issues as well.

I know you are trying to shed light on my attitude in some way, but you came off condescending to me, and I don't appreciate it. You didn't say anything I don't already know. I don't base my opinions solely on simple logic and principles. My experiences happen to be the deciding factor, and even though
I was impressed by the experience with the branch, that doesn't change the fact that I simply can't expect the steel to always perfrom that way, not even within the confines of a single company.

TFin04 said:
I liked my VG-10 Spyderco steel for the most part, although it was more of a hassle to sharpen then I like, and I wasn't able to get that real hair popping edge I was looking for.
Click to expand...
That's odd. My experiences with VG-10 were the exact opposite. On all something like 15+ I've owned.
 
My $.02:
Harsey T-2 chipped with a light tap on ceramic. Resharpened edge to slightly thicker degree and have not had chipping on ceramic with same force applied.
Incidentally this knife has held the edge longer this way.
Spyderco Native chipped on soft pine, cutting aggressively. Resharpened edge to slightly thicker degree and have not had chipping reoccur with wood.

TOPS scalpel in 1095 dulls after cutting up cardboard boxes. Changed angles slightly and left with coarse grind but still doesn't hold edge as well. Probably because its softer.

Seb in s30v has been used for some edc cutting and thick cardboard tubes. No loss of edge yet.

Just got a Becker 77 in s30v and was going to sell and get a TOPS DART.
Went online and ITS s30v now also. I was going to get the 1095 version for chopping as I thought the s30v might be too brittle but now I'm not sure.

Heat treat methods vary and make it difficult to judge which knife would actually work as well as 1095 for chopping since it isnt clear which method utilizes the steel better. Inconsistent testing, marketing, as well as other issues like the edges combine to make the steels limitations even cloudier.

If I were clearing brush and swinging full arm, say I didn't notice the big azz rock and came down on it brakeless. What would 1095 do? What would s30v do? They may bend, or snap. Both would chip. Both CAN snap. Both CAN bend. Next guy inline may do the same thing, hit a different part of rock and who knows. So which test is acurate? Whcih steel was better? Which would be easier to sharpen. 1095 would, but would lose edge faster. All IMO.
 
Is there a reason why S30V blades seem to come with less factory sharpness than other steels like VG-10? (E.g., Sebs, Bump.)
Thanks,
t.
 
tristram said:
Is there a reason why S30V blades seem to come with less factory sharpness than other steels like VG-10? (E.g., Sebs, Bump.)
Thanks,
t.
Click to expand...

Count it on the human touch.
 
Heat treatment is the big factor with most steels (let's say it a thousand times).

I'll take my chippy S30V before I'll grab my 440C knives (which I use at work only, at the moment).

However, you'd think a manufacturer would be consistant (relatively, considering mass production).

It's the inconsistancy within a manufacturer that I find a wee annoying.
 
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