Touching up Buck's 440C

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pinnah

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Jul 28, 2011
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Need some advice.

What's the best way to touch up the edge on Buck's 440C?

In the old blade FAQ, it mentions that different steels wear down differently. The edge on carbon steel will roll but 440C will abrade.

I've noticed this doing some carving projects this summer with my old Buck 112 next to some carbon knives. With the carbon knives, it's easy to bring back the edge on a strop. But this isn't enough for the 440C.

I'm looking for a way to touch up the blade without getting out the Lansky and goin through the whole sharpening process.

Am I correct to think that with an abraded edge, there is no way to avoid doing some to burr the edge to re-apex it?
 
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To the mods: sorry, pilot error on my part. Thought I was posting in the maintenance forum. Thanks for moving this.
 
Hello.

You should try microbeveling, there is a sticky with the theory on this forum.
Microbeveling allows you to avoid getting through a whole sharpening session to get a sharp edge back witout having to regrind the whole bevel.
Basically the way i used to do so is set up a 17 degrees per side angle using the lansky then go to spyderco sharpmaker using fine or ultra fine rods then do a very gentle couple of strokes at 20 per side. You can also use the lansky to set up that microbevel but i find it quite easy to overdo it. Dont forget to gently strop and you are good to go.
 
I don't know where you get such. My blades of 440C can be brought back to sharp by stropping and its not difficult. All blades wear, none are made from a magic potion. Nonstainless sharpens a bit different than stainless. DM
 
For years now,i have touched up my Buck knives by using a ceramic rod (Smith crock stick) .I simply take the rod in my left hand, knife in my right.I use the rod, as you would a sharpening steel( like they use to do before carving Thanksgiving turkey). Vary pressure, depending on sharpness. If knife is getting dull,use pressure. After several strokes, i lighten the pressure.Drag becomes less and less,until toward the end, the weight of the knife is usually all the pressure needed. This works well for all my stainless steel. I am sure my Bucks have a variety of steel (1977 to present mfg.) I have a 5 year old Vic Tinker, that has never been sharpened any other way. After a lot of use and many times of "steeling" on the rod, the Bucks will need to go to the stone, but i can use this technique 3-10 times between "stoning". Has worked for me for over 30 years.ymmv. regards Henry
 
Buck's 440C was a b*tch to sharpen; I wore out several carborundum hones back in the pre-diamond hone days trying to put an edge on that stuff. The only way to put an edge on was to sharpen it down to a burr, and I wore out my Buck Ranger just trying to sharpen it. I much prefer today's 420HC, which stands up better than 440C in CATRA tests; the carbides tend to tear out on 440C.
 
David Martin said:
I don't know where you get such. My blades of 440C can be brought back to sharp by stropping and its not difficult. All blades wear, none are made from a magic potion. Nonstainless sharpens a bit different than stainless. DM
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Hi David.

I'm getting this partly from the Steel FAQ in this forum. If I'm reading it right (and I may not be), 1095 is tougher (resists chipping) while 440C is stronger (resists bending or denting). The FAQ also points out that whittling is apt to roll the edge.

The rest I'm getting from long hours whittling and working with the knives on my strop. The Buck 112 will cut cleanly for longer than my 1095 knives. But I can generally return my 1095 to hair shaving sharp with the strop while I can't do the same with the 440C. The Steel FAQ notes that 440C is abrasion resistant. My sense (don't have a magnifying glass to inspect the blades) is that my 1095 blades roll easily but return to sharp quickly while my 440C become blunter and then require some material to be removed - at least more than what I can do with the strop. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

stalag2 said:
You should try microbeveling, there is a sticky with the theory on this forum.
Click to expand...

I should have mentioned that my 112 is already micro beveled. I break in the edge on my Lansky at 17 degrees, do the cutting edge at 20 and then "strop" the shoulder of the bevels with 2000 grit and then strop the working edge with Simacrhome on leather.

Right now the only way I can restore the 112 is to get out the Lansky and use the fine stone at 20 followed by stropping. I use the stone to the point of just being able to detect the faintest of burrs (much, much, much less than if were sharpening it from dull and damaged).

I would really like to find a way to restore the edge without digging out the Lansky though.
 
I convexed an older '2-dot' 112 in 440C, using SiC (wet/dry) sandpaper over my strop block. This is the best thing I could've done for it; it really responded well to that treatment, and touch-ups are easy. I strop using 1 micron diamond paste on leather, and when that's not quite enough, I just 'strop' on some medium/high grit wet/dry paper (anywhere from 800 thru 2000 grit).
 
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Alberta Ed said:
Buck's 440C was a b*tch to sharpen; I wore out several carborundum hones back in the pre-diamond hone days trying to put an edge on that stuff. The only way to put an edge on was to sharpen it down to a burr, and I wore out my Buck Ranger just trying to sharpen it. I much prefer today's 420HC, which stands up better than 440C in CATRA tests; the carbides tend to tear out on 440C.
Click to expand...

Curious thing about that; my experience from 20+ years ago kind of mirrors that. But back then, I was trying to use natural stones, I think, and my abilities were much more limited then too. Fast-forward to just a few years ago, and I finally tried some more aggressive abrasives (wet/dry sandpaper and/or diamond), and all of a sudden, 440C seemed fairly easy. SiC or diamond eats it up, and I've settled into using wet/dry sandpaper (SiC) to maintain it. Works like a charm.

I wouldn't get too sidetracked by CATRA testing, or worrying about the carbides in it. With anything other than natural stones, 440C doesn't seem any worse or harder to sharpen than most mid-range stainless steels.
 
David (Owe),

Based on earlier comments and some reading in a whittling book, I've been attempting to use wet/dry to strop and sharpen with no good success. It appears to me that this is blurring the line between sharpening and stropping. I've tried 600, 800, and 2000 backed on wood and on leather. Ive tried edge leading, trailing and circular to no avail. Can't shave forearm hair.

Mind sharing your wisdom? Your tips on smoothing the shoulders and sharpening basics have been a massive help!
 
The 2 dot 112 blades came from the factory convexed. Buckthorn, your behind on knife studies. Buck used 440C in all their blades from 1962- 82, for 20 YEARS. Perhaps even in 60 & 61 as well. Whittling and CATRA test are very different cutting with a knife. DM
 
Plus, the first stone Buck sold and recommended for use to sharpen their 440C blades on was a SiC stone made by the Carborundum Co.. Here is a photo of the stone and box with an early model having a blade of 440C. Yes, agreed a SiC stone works well when sharpening this steel. DM
100_2364.jpg
 
I'd like to ask again whether Buck used 440-C rather than one of the lower carbon content 440 (B or A) grades. Does anyone know for sure or are we all just assuming they used 440-C? If someone has addressed this and I missed it I apologize for asking again.
 
buckthorn said:
I'd like to ask again whether Buck used 440-C rather than one of the lower carbon content 440 (B or A) grades. Does anyone know for sure or are we all just assuming they used 440-C? If someone has addressed this and I missed it I apologize for asking again.
Click to expand...

Not a real answer, but there's a sticky in the Buck forum on the 110's on how to age them and what steel was used. I know my 2 dot 110 is 440C because I used to get my grand father to sharpen it for me since I couldn't when I was a 12 yo.
 
buckthorn said:
I'd like to ask again whether Buck used 440-C rather than one of the lower carbon content 440 (B or A) grades. Does anyone know for sure or are we all just assuming they used 440-C? If someone has addressed this and I missed it I apologize for asking again.
Click to expand...

Not an assumption. Well documented fact.
You missed it. Most of us know that Buck used 440C all during the 60's and 70's. They changed their business paradigm in the '80s.

David Martin said:
The 2 dot 112 blades came from the factory convexed. Buckthorn, your behind on knife studies. Buck used 440C in all their blades from 1962- 82, for 20 YEARS. Perhaps even in 60 & 61 as well. Whittling and CATRA test are very different cutting with a knife. DM
Click to expand...
 
buckthorn said:
I'd like to ask again whether Buck used 440-C rather than one of the lower carbon content 440 (B or A) grades. Does anyone know for sure or are we all just assuming they used 440-C? If someone has addressed this and I missed it I apologize for asking again.
Click to expand...

It's been, thoroughly, confirmed. Buck used 440c not 440a or b.

Back on topic:
If your gonna stop 440c, then use diamonds or cbn instead of green (chromium oxide) compound. Green compound doesn't work very good on 440c.
 
For whatever it means from me for you folks that aren't long time Buck specialists,

Steel and sharpening discussion on Bucks is led by Headmasters Knarfeng and D. Martin. Ask them and you get the straight information. My 300 series folders were never privledged to receive 440C blades, made do with 440a till a few got 425M and then finally 420HC. I use crocks,Lansky diamonds, Si paper and leather and white paste, depending on my mood. 300Bucks
 
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