Toughest knife contest - lets go for it !!

not2sharp

not2sharp

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 29, 1999
Messages
20,753
Almost every day someone on the forums wants to know whether so and so has the best steel and or the toughest knife. This is obviously an area of intense interest.

If we go by concensous today the majority would probably lean toward Busse as one of the strongest fixed blades available. Although, many would suggest other fine makers like Cold Steel, John Greco, Ricky Fowler, Walter Brend, Himilayan Imports, or even Mad Dog (yes ... I'm sorry I missed a bunch of them - and I am thinking fixed blade here). The real answer may very well be someone else entirely.

Well as I see it we can either continue to debate the hype or do something to find out.

What I would like to suggest is that the Bladeforums sponsor a contest to find the TOUGHEST KNIFE OF THE YEAR. The contest would feature monetary prizes to help out the first and second place winners, some clear ground rules, a defined set of objective test, and a lot of competition.

The timing would coincide with our second aniversary to highlight our success and provide would be contestants with plenty of time to prepare. And the event would be broadcast live on this site.

Would the contestants please line up on the right, and advertisers to the left
smile.gif
.

So members what do you think. Anybody interested?




[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 02-28-2000).]
 
BTT.

The first time around the forums crashed. Sure hope this post didn't have something to do with it.
rolleyes.gif


 
We could get a good argument going on how to define "toughness." A "tough" knife would presumably be tempered for resilience at the expense of edge-holding. It might also be very thick stock.

One might want to have size and weight divisions here. Or should we try comparing a lightweight laminated steel "puukko" to a big honkin kukri or bowie?



------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
James :

We could get a good argument going on how to define "toughness."
Click to expand...

Toughness is a defined materials property, it has a specific meaning.

A "tough" knife would presumably be tempered for resilience at the expense of edge-holding.
Click to expand...

Edge holding is increased as toughness increases all else being equal. You need a certain level of strength and toughness to get a high level of edge holding.

-Cliff
 
I was using the word tough loosely. Pretty much as we would declare someone the world strongest or toughest. Presumably we could define a series of test to define desirable properties . The structure of the contest would run something like this:

1) There would be a minimum set of criteria which all submissions would have to meet. For instance we could limit the maximum weight to 2 Lbs, to keep anybody from showing up with a 20lb "camp knife."

2) Then there would be a set of qualifying tests. We could require that the knife cut free hanging rope (to better align blade length and edge geometry). Likewise, we could require that the knife point pierce to a certain depth (when driven by a fixed rate of force) to ensure that the "knife" has a point).

3) Finally, we would get into the real contest and look at cutting edge durability, shock resistance, and ultimately strength. Some of Mike's tests would work well here.

So the first two series of test would define what is a knife with respect to this contest, and the last series would determine which is the best knife.

It would be an interesting way to promote ourselves, encourage innovative development, and perhaps discover some new and noteworthy makers.
 
The objective would be to see which maker had the best ability to create a knife that meets our test requirements. This is the opposite of the usual process. Given an situation (i.e. the test objectives) provide a knife that is best for that situation. Then we could determine objectively whether it truely is the best.
 
Just a Letter and a Nnmber---> D2, or just three numbers, and a letter---> 440V
wink.gif


------------------
BC...Semper Fi
 
Gr8 idea Not2Sharp. Maybe you should consider changing your username ...
smile.gif


As for t contest - I'd love to see it happen, and I want to make some suggestions as to how to make it both interesting and meaningful:

The knives should all be tested together - but the results should be divided by groups:

Custom, and non-custom knives.

Over a specific amount and below it (say 250 $ or 500 $standards)

Best existing knife and best one made FOR the competition.

All in all it's a beautiful idea and one that can divert the power to the members of the forum - hence moving us towards the net-democracy...

BTW - having the first two posts by two moderators - is an achievement all by itself
wink.gif


 
Narruc1,

Or could it be 420V, or INFI, in the end "there can only be one." Perhaps if we run the contest we will see some pattern emerging in steel performance and be able to conclude something. For now the field may be wide open.

We might even see an upset and have United Cutlery shows up with a magically treated blade of 420J that outperforms everything. There are three elements to knife performance: steel, design, and heat treatment. We have been focusing alot on steel, maybe the other two deserve more attention.

There is only one way to find out. Lock down the design objectives and test the products.
 
Other suggested field groupings: carbon and stainless, >6", >10", >15" blades, as well as corrosion resistance and flexiblity testing.
 
We could break it up into some catagories by blade length, and perhaps by average retail selling price.
 
We might mention the handle. I think this gets too little attention and is critical to using a knife. Balance matters. Some recognition in the design of the tests needs to be given to blade types and grinds. Hollow ground and flat ground blades will perform quite differently in various tests.

On the lighter side, the last test in the series obviously needs to be, "how far can you bend it before it breaks?" Nail and bolt cutting is good. You might rent a Orangutan for the "Does it still shave" part. A tame one is preferable. For some of the more abusive tests, I have a couple customers I'll loan you.

This should be fun...

------------------
Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
There wouldn't be a hairy orangatan left by the time we finished testing all the knives.
smile.gif


We will probably have to settle with rope and carboard cutting, wood chopping
 
Not2sharp :

We might even see an upset and have United Cutlery shows up with a magically treated blade of 420J that outperforms everything.
Click to expand...

That wouldn't be an upset if you were using toughness as the deciding factor. 420-J2 is quite probably the toughest stainless steel used in knife blades.

-Cliff
 
This contest might be just what's needed to light a fire under Mission and get a couple nitinol knives in circulation.

------------------
Semper Fi
 
Cliff,

I was using the word "tough" loosely. It would take a minor miracle to see a 420J blade out cut some of the higher grade steels.

Maybe we should start by suggesting some test that can be used to seperate the wheat from the stark. Clearly, we must have some concept of what makes a better knife and that what we want the tests to measure.

For starters we should consider that only fixed bladed knives will be tested this time around (Just wanted to start with something simple).

If I where to offer the supposition that the Busse BM will win the contest easily. What test can we come up with to explore that hypothesis.


 
Not2sharp :

It would take a minor miracle to see a 420J blade out cut some of the higher grade steels.
Click to expand...

You would just need a better (more acute profile) for it to push cut better. To get it to slice better would be difficult (recurve would help) as 420J2 is not overly agressive in that area, you can counteract this by altering your sharpening method but this will greatly reduce the edge lifetime (as if this wan't a big enough problem already).

The main problems however would be a high volume of work, as the edge would blunt rapidly, and impact work as the edge would dent readily, and lateral stress work as the blade would bend easily. Other than that you would be ok with a 420J2 blade though.


If I where to offer the supposition that the Busse BM will win the contest easily. What test can we come up with to explore that hypothesis.
Click to expand...

I told Matt Lamey that same thing a few months ago, he disagreed. It was his opinion that a forged bowie would easily outcut the BM and still be as strong as durable as necessary. The blade is in progress and my BM awaits its arrival.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 03-04-2000).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top