toughest semi stainless steel alternatives to 14c28n (mystery, unknown composition, fairly untested, little transparent manufacturer data)

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seacucumber

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Feb 14, 2013
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Problems:

unknown composition: I searched the Sandvik sites. There's no chemical composition (sammansättning) data.

fairly untested: I haven't seen many tests. I saw some for wear resistance and edge retention, but few for toughness.

Larrin Thomas tested it and gave it good ratings.
his ratings:
toughness 9
edge retention 3
corrosion resistance 8.5

What steels are similar, but with transparent manufacturers and reputation?
 
Are you saying 14C28N doesn’t have a published composition? Or another steel you forgot to mention in your post?
 
If you go to the Sandvik website and type in "14c28n", you don't get any results. I think that is what the OP is referring too.

To find their blade steels, you have to go to their steel division website which is ..

https://www.alleima.com/en/technical-center/material-datasheets/strip-steel/alleima-14c28n/

In 2022, Sandvik Materials Technology changed their name to Alleima. The parent company is still Sandvik which is why it is still called Sandvik 14c28n.

FYI, 420hc was rated by Dr. Larrin as 9 toughness, 2.5 edge retention, and 8 corrosion resistance OP, so similar stats to 14c28n.
 
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Dude, you can literally Google "Sandvik 14C28N composition" and get the chemical composition, just because a company doesn't have the info on their site, doesn't mean they're not transparent. They still have white papers and datasheets publicly accessible.
 
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14C28N isn't a mystery/unknown/untested or has a bad reputation to those of us that know better.
There's plenty on the internet to read & a lot of people think it's the best thing made - myself being on of those people.

Sure, there are (supposedly) higher quality steels - but - overall, there is little that can beat 14C28N.

Low cost - tough - takes an edge easily - holds an edge fairly well - resists rust pretty well.

I see that some of it has found its way to China. I may have a Chinese knife or two in my future.
 
I will agree with others - 14C28N is a fine steel, it is not a mystery but I will give you alternatives, in case anyone else wants tough staineless.

Why has nobody mentioned LC200N? That's strange, because it is not only stain-free, but really dang tough, up there with AEB-L and 420HC. Magnacut, to a lesser extent, but still plenty, plenty tough for most's purposes. Vanax, rarer, is also like this, but not as tough.

Some alternatives - AEB-L is a very tough stainless steel, that is up there/stronger than some tough tool steels, including Cruwear, M4, and even 52100, but way stronger than stuff like M390 and S35VN by orders of magnitude. Holds a pretty good edge, too. Not M390 edge-retention, but not bad at all, and way worth it in my opinion. Wish it was more popular!

CTS-XHP, not the absolute toughest but is pretty tough for what it is - it's like a better version of D2 and 440C, tougher than both and more stainless than D2. I like it a lot. Taking one step up in toughness, there is also AUS-8, and Nitro-V, good-toughness stainless steels for not bad price, I like my AUS-8 and it's big brother, AUS-10a very much, very keen, despite scoffing. 420HC is a very tough, stainless steel. Made by quality makers, this is a fine steel.

Smashed my David Mary spearpoint in AEB-L not too hard into a metal table eating an apple, and the knife was unscathed, no damage to edge even with magnifying glass, but the part of the aluminum/steel table I hit did not belie that it had lost the fight.
 
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Echo the above, aebl is fantastic steel - very easy to sharpen and very tough. However I have not found it to be all that great in the corrosion resistance department especially for a stainless steel.
 
Personally, I've carried a Ruike P-108, a Chinese folder in 14C28N, every day for the last 3 years. It's easy to get VERY sharp, holds that edge acceptably
well, and has had no tendency to even color, much less rust. PROPER heat treatment, and GOOD geometry, are much more important than the particular
alloy chosen for a blade.

AEB-L is practically identical to Sandvik 13C26. Or maybe it's vice-versa. Regardless, 14C28N was designed to be a better all-around steel than 13C26.
It's certainly more corrosion resistant, and even works well in the kitchen. And it's affordable performance.

Anyone who hasn't really should try a blade in 14C28N. I honestly think you'd be surprised.
 
I'm a big fan of 14C28N, both in budget knives and fixed blades. It's very tough for a stainless steel and it sure is stainless.

While Larrin Larrin only gives it a 3 on edge retention, it's worth considering that his ratings take place in the realm of very good heat treatments. When it comes to production knives running maybe 58-60 HRC, 14C28N either stands out as having better relative edge retention or possibly taking less of a hit from a mediocre heat treatment.

Ease of heat treatment or sensitivity therein seems to be a factor for production and especially budget knives. For instance, a lot of the M390 or 20CV you'll get in $100-200 knives doesn't get performance anywhere near its rating.
 
justjed said:
In my opinion, steel is among the least important qualities of a good blade. But, also in my opinion, 14C28N is one of the best all-around stainless alloys available for a using knife...
Click to expand...
lol what m8?

That is like saying a car engine is the least important quality of a car, makes no sense. I suspect what you mean is it is not that important provided it is at least of a certain quality. Your favorite knife in China Surgical Stainless or 420j probably wouldnt be your favorite user.

I suggest OP go buy the Knife Engineering book Larrin (who posted in this thread) wrote. Its fantastic...I'm a complete shill for it, sadly no kickbacks yet lol
 
seacucumber said:
Problems:

unknown composition: I searched the Sandvik sites. There's no chemical composition (sammansättning) data.

fairly untested: I haven't seen many tests. I saw some for wear resistance and edge retention, but few for toughness.

Larrin Thomas tested it and gave it good ratings.
his ratings:
toughness 9
edge retention 3
corrosion resistance 8.5

What steels are similar, but with transparent manufacturers and reputation?
Click to expand...

Others have addressed the transparency piece. Some nearly identical steels to an end user, assuming good heat treat:

AEB-L
Nitro-V
Sandvik 13c26
 
Dr Rez said:
lol what m8?
Click to expand...
Practically any steel that can be hardened above about 55RC can be made into a perfectly serviceable blade, PROVIDED the heat-treatment is correct, and the geometry is good for the intended job. Get those two right, and everything else is gravy. A knife's job is to cut stuff. Anything else it might do is secondary to that.

Edit: I have blades in 14C28N, 12C27, 420HC, 440A, 440c, AUS-8A, D2, ATS-34, CPM-154, VG-10, N690, 8CR13MOV, ZDP-189, S35VN, SK-5, 52100, L6, 5160, 1095, and 0170-6C/1095CroVan/CarbonV. Fixed and folders. They ALL cut stuff, more or less efficiently, as long as I do my part. That would be adjusting my cutting technique as needed, and keeping the blades from getting really dull before sharpening.
 
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justjed said:
Practically any steel that can be hardened above about 55RC can be made into a perfectly serviceable blade, PROVIDED the heat-treatment is correct, and the geometry is good for the intended job. Get those two right, and everything else is gravy. A knife's job is to cut stuff. Anything else it might do is secondary to that.

Edit: I have blades in 14C28N, 12C27, 420HC, 440A, 440c, AUS-8A, D2, ATS-34, CPM-154, VG-10, N690, 8CR13MOV, ZDP-189, S35VN, SK-5, 52100, L6, 5160, 1095, and 0170-6C/1095CroVan/CarbonV. Fixed and folders. They ALL cut stuff, more or less efficiently, as long as I do my part. That would be adjusting my cutting technique as needed, and keeping the blades from getting really dull before sharpening.
Click to expand...
Have fun cutting extremely abrasive materials, or through bones/ligaments etc for any period of time with 55hrc non powered steels. Why not have a good geometry/heat treat AND steel suited for the job.

Just like if I am abusing the living hell out of a knife Ill take a significantly tougher steel, or going into the ocean/water a corrosion resistant steel...I get your point that well heat treated steel with a good geometry is good. Ok...but that mixed with the appropriate steel is better. Much better.
 
You seem to forget that 90+% of the steel alloys we use for knives today were designed in the last 100 years, and that for the entirety of human history prior to the 20th century, there WERE no high performance alloys. Wootz was the closest, most likely. There most certainly were no stainless alloys. Even today, roughly half the population of our planet makes do with low-alloy straight carbon steels at a hardness of around 54-55RC, and they're not cutting cardboard, fiberglass packing tape, kevlar banding, etc.. While individuals may have perished for want of a better steel, we, as a species, survived.

I have plenty of different steels, and I have my preferences. They're probably different from yours. My edc fixed blade is S35VN, my folder is usually either 14C28N or Bohler N690. I'm not a steel snob, or a geek, I don't have to have the latest and greatest.
There IS such a thing as 'good enough.'
YMMV.
 
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justjed said:
You seem to forget that 90+% of the steel alloys we use for knives today were designed in the last 100 years, and that for the entirety of human history prior to the 20th century, there WERE no high performance alloys. Wootz was the closest, most likely. There most certainly were no stainless alloys. Even today, roughly half the population of our planet makes do with low-alloy straight carbon steels at a hardness of around 54-55RC, and they're not cutting cardboard, fiberglass packing tape, kevlar banding, etc.. While individuals may have perished for want of a better steel, we, as a species, survived.
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This is a huge strawman argument. At no point did I say previously existing steels didnt work or were not good enough. I said modern powered steels among some others have greatly improved the performance of steel across the board.

Your argument (which is again a strawman) is the equivalent of saying we used flint and other combustibles for most of human history to make fire, because there WERE no lighters/blowtorches/etc. Yet we still survived....

I mean no kidding, but why would you discredit the advances in technology which are objectively better performing?
 
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