Toughest Stainless?

flatgrinder

flatgrinder

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Dec 20, 2005
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Anyone know if there is a tough stainless out there?

I know INFI is not considered stainless, but is pretty corrosion free in general use. However, the typical knifemaker doesn't have access to this stuff. Is this stuff really proprietary? Or is it a "regular" grade of steel that has just been renamed for marketing purposes? Anyone ever done a chemical analysis on it?

Any ideas for a "tough" stainless?
 
That's a good question. I am actually not sure if someone has ever analyzed it and has published the results.

Anyway, If someone claims to have developed a superior steel, they probably have done quite a bit of scientific research and invested a significant amount of money. I am not talking about chopping 2x4s or cut rope, I am talking about lab research done by experts. Is it likely that a knife manufacturer, who, by industry standards, only uses minute amounts of the material, develops steel in a lab? I don't think so.

There are only few plants out there that produce these steel types. Try calling one of them and say you want to buy 2 tons to make knifes, they probably crack up.
Typically the system works like this. The plant makes the steel in an delivers it to dealers, who, supply the industry. If you own a plant and need steel for 3 million camshafts you may approach the steel factory directly.
I think chances are pretty high to find something similar to INFI once you have an analysis.

But then there are lots of though steels out there S30V/154CM/ATS/440C/S90V/BG42/D2/Carbon V. Why go after INFI? It's not a miracle steel because there is no miracle steel. I real life there shouldn't be a more than 10% difference when it comes to edge holding capabilities, provided the steel is properly heat treated.

I do understand that a knife manufacturer has to have a marketing strategy, and miracle steel is always a good argument. It's like megapixels with cameras, people always want more and better. I used to own a rat, which was a a great knife but I was unable to verify an extreme steel related superiority.
 
Somewhere I have the analysis for INFI and a search on the forum might find it.You can get steel made to your specs if you buy enough. Toughest stainless ?? You really have to define all you needs not just one as the blade must do more than one thing.
 
It is reported that INFI has some corrosion resistance, but it is definitely not a stainless. The toughest high hardness stainless (capable of reaching 60 Rc) is going to be in the high carbon 420 line, i.e. 420HC, 12C27m, 12C27, 13C26, AEB-L, etc. They all have the smallest carbides with the lowest carbide volume, and generally have a fairly small grain size. All of those steels have moderate wear resistance. To have high wear resisance you have to sacrifice having a small carbide size and volume, especially in stainless steels. The toughest high wear resistance stainless seems to be S30V.
 
Timken Latrobe 20CV tested as more wear resistant than S30V, and will hold an edge approximately 30% longer, with similar toughness.
 
Thanks for all the replies!

Just looking for a stainless steel that would make a good camp knife. A small grain size would be nice. I like how O1 cuts (along with the realtively good toughness levels) and that has really fine grain. I was considering S30V, but with all the chipping stories and large grain size -just curious about alternatives.

Anyone know where a lowly part-time maker can obtain some 20V, 13C26 or AEB-L at an affordable price?
 
flatgrinder said:
I was considering S30V, but with all the chipping stories and large grain size -just curious about alternatives.
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I am of the group that thinks chipping stories with S30V are user or heat treatment related, but either way, it does not have a large grain size. If 20CV does have similar toughness to S30V, it does not have greater. I contacted Bohler about the toughness of M390 (of which 20CV is a copy), and they told me I should be more interested in Elmax if I want toughness. Elmax has about the same carbide volume as S30V, the Damasteel handbook lists Elmax as having 14.5% carbide volume, and Crucible lists S30V as having 14.5% carbide volume. I can only assume, because of the high amounts of carbon and chromium along with the molybdenum, tungsten, and 4% vanadium, that 20CV has greater carbide volume than Elmax or S30V. Based solely on carbide volume, I would give the nod to S30V for toughness over other PM stainlesses such as CPM-154, 20CV, Elmax, S90V, and ZDP-189. 20CV is still interesting in that it might be a good steel to select for wear resistance between that of S30V and S90V, and for an alternative to S30V's chipping reports. Before I added S30V to my lineup I would test it with my knives and my heat treatment (or Paul Bos's) to make sure that there isn't any of the chipping with S30V. I would also try CPM-154 as an alternative for easier sharpening.

For a large chopper, I don't think any of the PM stainless steels will work, they all have too great a carbide volume. Try to find a source for 12C27 or AEB-L/13C26. If you e-mail me I can give you a list of possible sources, but there aren't any easy sources, and the Swedish companies aren't really set up to sell steel in small amounts like Crucible is.

Edit: I forgot to add that it is most likely you'd find 12C27 in sizes for a chopping knife, AEB-L and 13C26 you're lucky to find it in 1/8".
 
Just try to find a local steel wholesaler in your area, something like this:

http://www.steelforge.com (Just an example)

Steel itself isn't all that expensive, shipping a bar across the country can be.

Even if they don't have the steel in stock they may be willing to get it for you if you are nice, picking it up at the warehouse may save you money too. They are not going to sell in quantities less than a full flat bar.
 
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