toxic woods

Joined
Feb 16, 2005
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I was wondering if any of you more experienced guys could clue me in as to what woods a beginner like myself should avoid. I've been looking at exotic hardwoods and I really have no idea which way to go. I've heard a lot of discussion on health issues lately, and I'm particularly concerned because I have two young sons who have a complete fascination with whats going on in my shop. I'd just as soon stick to the safer stuff. I'm also wondering if I took a 'less-toxic' wood and stabilized it, is the stabilization in any way toxic? Thanks for your help.
-Jeramy
 
Shakudo, I'm confused by that link . There is a difference in a material being toxic and being an allergin.What does he mean by sensitizer ? In any case stuff getting into your lungs is bad even if totally inert.And it adds up over the years . Stabilizer is acrylic as far as I know. Good ventilation with exhaust fan and a respirator is the way to go !!
 
take a look at the link,2nd paragraph i think "class". i believe most doctor's call it enviromental disease now. repeated exposure builds up over time till the reactions seriously affect your health.
 
And there are also spores and fungus that reside in some woods,,take care and make sure to use a resapirator..
 
I react to Coco Bolo, I guess that a fairly large percentage of people do. Carbon Fiber, G-10, and Ebony are some of the worst for generating harmful dust...Take Care...Ed
 
Some of the worst ,as far as reaction to them, are - cocobola,amboyina,afzelia,thuya,and other exotic hardwood burls.
Others that can cause problems to some people are - rosewood,ebony,stabilized woods,spalted woods.
As said by METE,respirators,ventilation,dust extraction (and containment) are important.The same rules apply even in a woodshop.
The grinding area is not a good place for young children.Let them watch you work on fitting guards and hand sanding blades.When grinding and polishing,a knife can snag the belt/wheel and go across the shop like a bullet (not to mention small metal particles) - you don't want to turn around and find that one of your children was the recipient of the object thrown! It is also paramount that YOUR attention be undivided when grinding/buffing,or you may be injured.
Stacy
 
Thanks for all your help.

I've actually decided to set up my grinding equipment in a self-contained workbench I'm going to build outside the shop. I'll still use the respirator, but this way I don't have to worry so much about dust collecting. I can just vacuum the workbench area and then close it up. I don't think I'll throw up enough dust to tick off the neighbors because its just a hobby, and I'll make sure to do my grinding when the kids aren't around. (The older one's 10, and he's really interested in this. I have a feeling I'll have to find a respirator for him too in the not too distant future.)

I still think I'll try to avoid some of those hardwoods, at least until I have more experience.

Thanks again,
-Jeramy
 
As I carpenter for the past 20+ years or so, I can honestly say that most of the warnings regarding various woods appear to be somewhat overblown. Heck, for most of those years the predominant wood around here for building was redwood, and other than it staining your hands, I saw nobody in the trades who had ever had any adverse reaction to it (or any other woods, including exotics) even after being coated with it head to foot on a daily basis. And very few folks used dust masks back then either. Now that I've gotten older (and wiser, one would hope) I use a dust mask and/or respirator all the time, (and I would advise everyone else to also) when they are exposed to any kind of dust ...regardless of it's source, but the point is that wood is about as benign a material as one will encounter in this day and age.
Are some people sensitive to various woods? I suppose so. But there are plenty of more toxic chemicals in the carpet that you walk on in your house then in the majority of these purportedly 'hazardous' woods.
 
http://www.ci.tucson.az.us/arthazards/wood2.html

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/rec.wood.misc/wood.toxic

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis30.pdf

http://old.mendelu.cz/~horacek/toxic.htm

http://www.awwg.org/awg_woodtoxicity.htm

http://www.mimf.com/archives/toxic.htm

http://www.riparia.org/toxic_woods.htm

Even the government now says wood is a carcinogen. Better safe than sorry.

My uncle worked in the bay area shipyards during WWII, and after.
None of the people he knew(including him) lived very long after retirement.
Asbestos wasn't considered dangerous then either.
 
I'm not debating that it's probably not a good idea to breathe wood dust ...its probably not a good idea to breathe any dust.
My point is that the sources that you list for wood being 'dangerous' give caveats like "based on public domain information that is believed to be reliable" and use words like "unverified", "may", and come "from sources 20 years old". Most of the 'sources' of this information appear to have come from "an article/chart appeared in American Woodturner, June 1990, originally posted to rec.woodworking by Bruce Taylor".

I personally would be more concerned about feeding kids genetically modified foods made with 'Roundup ready grains', and exposing them to other chemicals used around the house and that are found in everyday products, rather than worrying about the hazards of 'wood'.
As I stated, most folks don't have a problem letting their kids crawl around and play on their nice wall to wall carpet, and that stuff is loaded with toxic chemicals ...which doesn't seem to keep people from installing it in their homes.
Choose your poison. As for me personally, I believe wood is one of the least of my worries.
 
Jiminy,When i started out i had the same thoughts,my uncles and father were all woodworkers and never had any problems,but after grinding some spalted maple, i woke up at night basically unable to breathe that triggered a visit to the doctors,five years later i still have shortness of breath,and i dread to think what it will be like in later years,not being able to breath has to be the scareious experience of my life..I have all my maple stabalized now...
 
Many woods contain viruses, and desert ironwood has natural pesticides that are powerful enough to put Ortho to shame. It can cause fungal infections in the lungs leading to pneumonia, and even death.

I have first hand experience with Ironwood, thinking, it's only wood(like allan above), and grinding one side down to see the grain, and that night I had trouble breathing.
For the next three weeks I lay in bed with my heart pounding so hard I thought each beat would be the last, and barely able to breathe.

The local hospital said if I didn't have cash, or insurance, they prefer I not come in.:eek: Yes I know it's not legal, but when has that ever stopped the medical profession.

When I finally started to recover, I read an article in one of the cutlery mags I had coincidentally, just received, about toxic woods, and ironwood was right at the top, with the very symptoms I had, except I was able to skip the more lethal end.

It's no joke to get stuff like this, and someone with a weak heart could easily die from the symptoms, and it would just be written off to heart failure, as no doctor would think to check for something like a virus, or allergic reaction to wood.

In the area where I live, starting in November, the people would start lining up at the various doctors offices(my wife among them) with chronic inflammations of the lungs leading to infections, bronchitis etc. This went on every year.:eek: They would take a steady diet of antibiotics till the weather warmed up in May.

I was talking to one doctor who is a friend of mine about this, because I suffered from headaches so bad as to be crippling from Novenber through May, I had suspected it had a lot to do with the wood stove but wasn't sure, the doctor asked if we burned juniper, and or cedar. The answer was yes as that was the only wood the forestry people would allow to be cut for firewood here and everybody in this valley burned it.

The doctor said that about 75% of people exposed to juniper will become allergic to some degree, usually resulting in lung inflammatins etc.
He also said he refused to treat people who continued to use woodstoves, or fireplaces. He said once you became sensitized by stuff like juniper, or cedar, you'd most likely be sensitive to other woods also.

People used these stoves because we didn't have natural gas in many areas, and the electric company sold power to us at 15.5cents a KWH(and it cost a fortune to heat with electricity), though they sold electricity to california who resold it to their customers for 3.5 cents a KWH, hence the woodburning here.

We finally got gas piped in, I quit using the juniper(and the wood stove altogether), and my wife hasn't been sick once since with any chest problems(my headaches diminished greatly), as has been the case with all I know in this area, including my neighbors, one of who spent about $5000 on tests to figure her breathing problems out, and the dizzy spells etc., and she was the head operating room nurse at the hospital here.

She finally ran into one smart doctor who asked her about burning juniper. She stopped, and so did her symptoms.

People around here have mostly stopped using wood stoves, and fireplaces, and the general health has greatly improved.

But you have to wonder how this will affect older people here in the long term.:confused:

Sorry for the overly long post, but I figured these things relevant.:p
 
Wow, that's quite a story.

I actually had a run-in with a mild case of pneumonia once. It was more than enough to convince me to quit smoking :-) A lot of my symptoms were similar to that.

The post from Jiminy reminded me of a news story I heard a couple of years ago, where they did a study and found that one of the most toxic environments people come in contact with is a new car. Apparantly you have all the chemicals from new carpet, paint, glue, plastic, etc... just rising up into the air. They actually recommended driving around with the windows down for the first few months after buying a new vehicle. Ahhh, two steps forward...
 
Hey, to each their own.

I imagine that if you take just about anything found in and about your house and grind it and/or burn it, and/or get it on your skin or ingest it, you'd cause far more damage to yourself than burning or grinding various species of wood ....which was my point from the very beginning. (For instance, are you aware that plastic food containers leech plastic into foods stored inside them, as does plastic wrap?)

I wouldn't be surprised if there are folks hereabouts that are worried about 'toxic wood', but don't see a problem with handling ferric chloride without gloves, or breathing the fc fumes, or playing with other sundry solvents, glues and resins ...all the while breathing the vapors and getting it on their hands. It also wouldn't surprise me if I found out that many knifemakers grind all sorts of metals and resins without any type of mask or respirator. And you're worried about wood?

Here's an amusing anecdote that will help convey my position on this:

A few weeks ago my mother-in-law bought some new face cream. After using it she broke out in a rash. She promptly called the company and angrily demanded her money back.
What she didn't tell them (and what failed to register in her brain as being the most likely cause of the mystery 'rash'), was that she had spent the three days prior to her developing said 'rash' spraying Lord knows how much Roundup on every weed she could find on her 1 acre manicured lawn without a respirator of any sort, (or gloves) and was wiping the sweat from her face on her Roundup soaked shirt with her Roundup soaked hands....

Anyways, in talking to her, it never dawned on her to blame the Roundup she literally took a 3 day bath in, it was the 'face cream' that caused the rash. Whatever.
 
jiminy said:
Hey, to each their own.




Here's an amusing anecdote that will help convey my position on this:

A few weeks ago my mother-in-law bought some new face cream. After using it she broke out in a rash. She promptly called the company and angrily demanded her money back.
What she didn't tell them (and what failed to register in her brain as being the most likely cause of the mystery 'rash'), was that she had spent the three days prior to her developing said 'rash' spraying Lord knows how much Roundup on every weed she could find on her 1 acre manicured lawn without a respirator of any sort, (or gloves) and was wiping the sweat from her face on her Roundup soaked shirt with her Roundup soaked hands....

Anyways, in talking to her, it never dawned on her to blame the Roundup she literally took a 3 day bath in, it was the 'face cream' that caused the rash. Whatever.

I don't find the above amusing at all.

Are you saying that what happened to me, and Allan was actually caused by something else, or that it's all BS that many exotic woods, and not so exotic are known to cause health problems?

I frankly don't care what you do in your shop, or whether you wear a respirator or not, but to give others the impression it's OK not to use respiratory protection when working with wood, and give all kinds of misleading straw man arguments about grinding up your houshold goods etc., is irresponsible, IMO.

What people do in their own shops is their business, and if they handle FC in a dangerous manner, grind steel without benefit of protection, that's their problem, but when people come here to ask advice, and you contradict others who are trying to help these people with protection from known health issues, well, that's just wrong.

You seem to have come here with a chip on your shoulder, or some axe to grind, why, I don't know,but you might just want to sit back and see how the forum works before basically saying many of us are FOS, as you may need help here yourself someday.
 
I don't find the above amusing at all.

Are you saying that what happened to me, and Allan was actually caused by something else, or that it's all BS that many exotic woods, and not so exotic are known to cause health problems?

Nope, what I'm saying is that your 'evidence' against wood as being the cause is unproven and based solely on anecdotal evidence and the opinion of one doctor. Unless you were to have an extensive allergen test(s) done to determine what exactly caused your problems, to blame it on wood is just guesswork, nothing more. (By the way, woodstoves give off CO2, which also causes headaches, and unless one puts moisture back into the air via some type of humidifier, you'll get respiratory problems too.)

I frankly don't care what you do in your shop, or whether you wear a respirator or not, but to give others the impression it's OK not to use respiratory protection when working with wood, and give all kinds of misleading straw man arguments about grinding up your houshold goods etc., is irresponsible, IMO.

If you check back in every one of my posts in this thread, you'll find that I never gave anyone the "impression it's OK not to use respiratory protection when working with wood", in fact I said the opposite, that one should always wear a mask or respirator when grinding anything.

What I did say is that the purported 'dangers' of wood appear to be somewhat overblown, and that many other products in and around the home are far more 'dangerous' to one's health (or that of their children) than the various compounds one may or may not find in wood.

Will some people have reactions if they come into contact with certain woods? Undoubtedly. But to convey by posting links to dubious lists that virtually all woods are 'toxic' is not good 'advice', it's scare tactics.

You seem to have come here with a chip on your shoulder, or some axe to grind, why, I don't know,but you might just want to sit back and see how the forum works before basically saying many of us are FOS, as you may need help here yourself someday.

I'm familiar with how forums work, thanks, neither do I have a "chip" or "axe to grind" (and I've already gotten good advice from these forums). I'm simply pointing out that the jury is still out on just how 'toxic' to most people those lists of woods actually are. And no one's saying you're "FOS" ...it's just that acting like chicken little might just be doing people more of a disservice rather than 'helping' them, by scaring them into thinking that wood is some great 'bogey man' that they should stay away from and use artificial materials instead ...artificial materials that are virtually all much more toxic to one's health than the majority of woods.

And let me repeat this ...never did I advocate not wearing a respirator or mask when working with wood ...or any other material for that matter.

My intent was not to ruffle feathers, it was to provide a counterpoint to the 'wood is bad' crowd.
 
I have to agree with most of what Jiminy says. I could give you a long list of chemicals in your environment that you are totally unaware of. All of them have to be dealt with by your immune system and the immune system gets worn out doing it. That results in the ever increasing problems with cancer and other immune systems diseases.According to the American Chemical Society ,since 1965 there have been 8 million NEW chemicals invented and 70,000 of them used regularly.[do you want a 10 hour dissertation on the subject ?] ...Always try to minimize exposure to all chemicals.
 
Wooo,

Nothing like a good debate.

It is true there are many items in the atmosphere, shop, even in the "throne room" that either hurt humans or the ozone in some way.

The point is you can take chances with your health no matter what anyone says. On the other hand you can protect yourself as you wish also. Breathing dust of ANY KIND, carcinogenic or other chemicals cannot be healthy for you.

If you want to live longer use your safety equipment.

 
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