Trade Intermediaries

[risen]

I wish there were a few highly reputable Members who had the time to volunteer as Trade Intermediaries, where folks who want some extra piece of mind can go through to ensure a trade goes right.

Both traders send their stuff to the Intermediary. That person checks the stuff when it comes in, communicates with both parties, if everything's aces, ship the stuff off to the intended folks. Nothing would get shipped off till the Intermediary got both trades.

Of course, there'd be a little added cost for shipping and it may take a little longer. But, knowing a trustworthy person is overseeing the deal would make it all well worthwhile, especially when trading higher-end items.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

risen

 

[risen]

One last follow-up on the Intermediary idea.

I think something like this would make for a great service BladeForums could offer for individual higher-end transactions, trades and sales, run by highly reputable Members/Volunteers.

Maybe charge a sliding-scale fee based on the value of the deal, or even just a small flat fee, to help support the forum.

Of course, there'd be some disclaimers to work out to protect BladeForums, but I think a lot of folks would welcome this sort of option.

Heck, offering this sort of service to the knife community, especially from a place like BladeForums, I really believe it could become a huge thing.

I bet Members with expensive/rare blades would really dig it.

Just a thought.

 

[Kiah]

One last follow-up on the Intermediary idea.

I think something like this would make for a great service BladeForums could offer for individual higher-end transactions, trades and sales, run by highly reputable Members/Volunteers.

Maybe charge a sliding-scale fee based on the value of the deal, or even just a small flat fee, to help support the forum.

Of course, there'd be some disclaimers to work out to protect BladeForums, but I think a lot of folks would welcome this sort of option.

Heck, offering this sort of service to the knife community, especially from a place like BladeForums, I really believe it could become a huge thing.

I bet Members with expensive/rare blades would really dig it.

Just a thought.

In theory, sure. In reality it's a mess. You now have twice the chance for loss of shipping and an extra person to get mad at or blame for things going wrong. Check the thread where Leatherman volunteered to mediate a trade. He did everything right, lost money on the shipping, and still got crap for it. Bladeforums itself, as in Kevin appointing someone for the job, is not gonna happen, and any individual who takes it on as a large scale offer is just asking for trouble. Just my opinion.

 

[Cougar Allen]

There are some services that do that. Some of them are scams. The ones that are honest charge plenty, too much to be viable for most knife transactions. If you're making deals in the thousands of dollars you might look into it....

 

[risen]

In theory, sure. In reality it's a mess. You now have twice the chance for loss of shipping and an extra person to get mad at or blame for things going wrong. Check the thread where Leatherman volunteered to mediate a trade. He did everything right, lost money on the shipping, and still got crap for it. Bladeforums itself, as in Kevin appointing someone for the job, is not gonna happen, and any individual who takes it on as a large scale offer is just asking for trouble. Just my opinion.

I'm not familiar with that deal.

Was Leatherman acting solely as an intermediary? If so, there should've been no reason for him to lose money if he wasn't an active party in the trade.

I think if an intermediary option was more formally established and put in place, along with all the necessary disclaimers/agreements, there wouldn't be those sorts of problems.

Sure, probably have to work a few kinks out in the beginning, but the end result/s might really prove worth it.

If a true haven was created where folks could more securely conduct individual trades/sales, it could set a whole new standard, one that's built on traditions/customs many in the knife community hold dear.

Who knows, maybe someone else will take this idea and run with it. If done right, I think it's an excellent opportunity for someone trustworthy to provide a much needed service.

I certainly wouldn't let the risk overcome the reward here. If anything, this opportunity would eliminate a lot of risk/s for many (imo), risks that already exist, and a growing number of folks seem to be suffering from.

Hey, again, just a thought.

 

[risen]

There are some services that do that. Some of them are scams.

All the more reason why if a place like BladeForums did it, a place many hold in high regard, it would be more trusted/welcomed.

The ones that are honest charge plenty, too much to be viable for most knife transactions. If you're making deals in the thousands of dollars you might look into it....

Which is why if it was facilitated with/by volunteers, for the love of it (so to speak), it would greatly minimize costs to the parties. Again, a small flat fee or a sliding-scale fee would merely be to help further support the forum.

This would be a great economical alternative to more expensive services, imo.

 

[risen]

In the end, you call that a dealer.

Might be more like a facilitator than a dealer.

The Intermediary isn't selling and/or trading anything, only serving as a more secure conduit to ensure a deal is more safely conducted & completed.

Example:

A Member here has a very rare Sebenza model (one that gives the power of flight, etc...). He offers it up for a reasonable $750 rolleyes. Anyway, someone from another country says, "I'll take it.".

Wouldn't it be great if the ground rules were already established where the Sebenza owner could send the knife to the BFI (BladeForums Intermediary). Once received/verified, the buyer is contacted. That buyer sends payment to Member/Seller. Once payment is received, the BFI ships the item (insured, tracking, etc..., with monies that were already prepaid/sent to BFI).

From the $750 plus whatever shipping/insurance costs were agreed on, if on a sliding-scale fee, maybe the BFI fee would be 5% of the price/value of the item = $37.50, or if a flat fee, maybe $25.

Everyone's happy, no one got screwed, good word spreads.

Please keep in mind, this is just a first run at this approach which I'm sure could use some polish, but it could work.

 

[Kiah]

If you really think it's a good idea, post it up in tech support and see what the response is. That'll give the idea a wider audience and get Spark's input on it.

 

[risen]

Will follow up on it later today.

I'll clean up the idea a little and try to simplify it for brevity.

Thanks.

 

[Cougar Allen]

It's often proposed, and it's always "I wish somebody would do that." In fact there are people who do that, and they charge plenty for it -- for good reason; they earn every penny. If you (or anybody else) want to do it you can learn why for yourself. As long as you're only saying "I wish somebody would do that," or even worse, "I wish the people who run this forum would do that (for a lot less than the people who do it charge)," the idea ain't goin' nowhere.

By the way, it's called an "escrow service." That's the keywords to find them with. Bear in mind, the ones that don't charge a hefty fee for the service are scams. Take reasonable precautions to make sure there is somebody identifiable and locatable running the service. Anonymity has its place on the net, but not in an escrow service.

 

[risen]

It's often proposed, and it's always "I wish somebody would do that." In fact there are people who do that, and they charge plenty for it -- for good reason; they earn every penny. ...

Again, which is why I'm suggesting something that's more community-based rather than business-driven. If a larger sincere group developed this system, I don't believe it would be as difficult/expensive.

By the way, it's called an "escrow service." ...the ones that don't charge a hefty fee for the service are scams. ... Anonymity has its place on the net, but not in an escrow service.

This is not an "escrow service". "Escrow" implies professional/business services for profit which would be available to all. That's not what I'm suggesting, nor is the idea meant to become a driving force for revenue.

Any fee, whether it's a percentage, sliding scale or flat fee, could be seen as more of a donation to help support the forum.

The use of the term "escrow" also implies/demands other requirements (perhaps even regulatory), which also would not be the case here.

A community/forum-based support service designed to benefit Members, only (maybe even further limited to just Gold & Platinum Members), would not be as formal. While the process may appear escrow-ish, the assistance would merely be from a facilitation standpoint.

Semantics? Not to me.

If a description/definition was to be given to my idea, it would be more in the form of a Private Community [edit out - Trust] Private Community Exchange Hub (don't like the word "Trust", also implies stuff that doesn't/wouldn't apply), made up & handled by it's own Membership, who would volunteer their own time, just as any Moderator and/or Senior Member does now.

Look, this idea can be as easy or as complicated as anyone wants it to be.

I'm not a lawyer, but my paralegal training/background tells me that this can be a very straightforward deal. Sure, the forum would put a few stips in place (disclaimer/hold harmless/indemnification, etc...). But, that's easy stuff. Heck, there are already similar stips in place to participate here, so there wouldn't be much more needed.

If we shmancy this thing all up with terms like "escrow" & "acting agents", bring in the lawyers, jack up the fees, then throw it all out the window cuz no one will be able to afford it.

If we stick to just "helping" Members who trade/sell amongst themselves, to assist/ensure a safe exchange environment, I think we're on to something.

Btw, anonymity doesn't even factor into this, and it shouldn't.

Another btw, I'd rather see folks occasionally propose stuff like this than just keep hearing "oh well, that's life", when deals go bad. Hey, at least some folks are trying to come up with solutions. It's proactive. Better than nothing. And, something useful may come out of it.

 

[risen]

To clear up about donating to BladeForums for this Trade/Sale Intermediary thing:

The structure could be just a flat fee approach.

It could be a percentage of the trade value/sale price.

A sliding scale could work like $10 for a $50 - $250 deal, $20 for a $250 - $500 deal, $30 for a $500 - $750 deal, etc..., something like that.

The option of using this assistance/service could already be included in the Trade or Sale offer.

Or, if the person replying to the offer has questionable history, the Trader/Seller could then request handling the deal through BladeForums. Maybe it's the replying Trader/Buyer who'd feel better using a go-between because of the value/money involved.

This may not seem practical for a $10 knife, but if it was for an XM-18, this option would be golden, imo.

Anyway, this is just an initial brainstorm.

Based on what some have posted, something like this has already been suggested. But, has anyone ever actually tried it? I mean, it's easy to shoot an idea down, but I'm a believer in giving things a shot.

I welcome further discussion. Maybe something cool can evolve from it. We might be able to start something on BladeForums that will raise the bar in the Forum World.

Btw, thanks Esav for transitioning part of the initial thread.

 

[EMT_Lee]

It could work. However, my main concern would be this: Would would be liable if the item/s went missing during shipping from the middle-man to the actual buyer/trader?

 

[mat_890]

I have scene this implemented before on other forums but there is really only one way it can work.

Bladeforums takes no responsibility. Compensation is a simple flat fee to whoever acts as a third party (taking into consideration this is semi-volunteer) of like 5-10 dollars per side regardless of the value of the deal. In case of trade both sides send extra postage (how often do trades actually happen?). Bladeforums would not get a cut, and would have no more involvement then any any other deal. Things do not get lost in the mail at a noticeable frequency, thats BS and you were scammed. It will take longer but would decrease the ability to be taken advantage of.

What does bladeforums get? They require both party's to be gold or higher rather then just the seller.

On forums this has been implemented there is usually good demand for the service (from my experience anyway) Personally I would only do this for deals involving cash, not trades.

If I had a higher post count/respect I would certainly act as a third party for Canadians. You get to see and hold alot of cool knives, and you get some beer money

 

[risen]

It could work. However, my main concern would be this: Would would be liable if the item/s went missing during shipping from the middle-man to the actual buyer/trader?

For higher-end stuff, wouldn't insurance be the norm, anyway? If so, I don't believe shipping liability would be an issue.

Even lower-priced/valued items get at least Tracking/DC, which tends to keep carriers more in line, I believe. I think it's pretty hard to lose something with Tracking/DC. I've never seen a package get lost with Tracking/DC. The worst I've seen is the package return to the sender.

All that said, for sure, BladeForums would not be liable.

 

[risen]

...Bladeforums takes no responsibility. ...

Agreed.

Compensation is a simple flat fee to whoever acts as a third party (taking into consideration this is semi-volunteer) of like 5-10 dollars per side regardless of the value of the deal. ...

That's workable.

...In case of trade both sides send extra postage (how often do trades actually happen?). Bladeforums would not get a cut, and would have no more involvement then any any other deal. ...

That's where an Intermediary thing is different. The trade items pass through the Intermediary to ensure the deal is going as it should. For that, a donation of $5 - $10 can still go to BladeForums. May not be worth it for a $10 trade, but if the trade is $100, I think the extra security is worth it, especially if dealing with someone who has questionable history (negative or no feedback, etc...).

Things do not get lost in the mail at a noticeable frequency, thats BS and you were scammed. It will take longer but would decrease the ability to be taken advantage of.

I agree.

What does bladeforums get? They require both party's to be gold or higher rather then just the seller.

Sure. It's a premium benefit being offered only to marquis Members.

Or, if regular Members want to benefit from Intermediary assistance, pay an extra $5?

On forums this has been implemented there is usually good demand for the service (from my experience anyway) Personally I would only do this for deals involving cash, not trades.

I can see that. But, I still think high value trades would benefit, as well (Sebenzas, XM018s, etc...).

Thanks for the input. Appreciate it.

 

[Spark]

I'm not getting involved in this. What's the point? If I'm just reshipping things back and forth, then there's extra shipping costs for everyone involved - $10 minimum for each way with UPS, and then there's labor. Pretty soon we're talking $50 per trade.

We're not an escrow house.

 

[risen]

We're not an escrow house.

It's not an escrow deal.

But, that's fine. Just a suggestion. Wanted to see where it might lead.

Thanks, anyway.

Btw, the point was to offer Members an option that might help them avoid getting screwed over by what seems to be an increasing number of bad deals, trade & sales. Paying an extra $10 and taking a few extra days certainly seems better than losing an expensive knife, at least to me it seems better. Again, thanks anyway.

 

[The Government]

Btw, the point was to offer Members an option that might help them avoid getting screwed over by what seems to be an increasing number of bad deals, trade & sales. Paying an extra $10 and taking a few extra days certainly seems better than losing an expensive knife, at least to me it seems better. Again, thanks anyway.

When you said "10 dollars" were you referring to the extra shipping charges or were you referring to a payment for the service?

Would you do all this work for only $10 yourself?

I cant think of anyone who would do this for free and still be as reliable as the job description would imply. Who knows though -Maybe you will find some helpful volunteers?

 

[risen]

When you said "10 dollars" were you referring to the extra shipping charges or were you referring to a payment for the service?

I believe it was in reference to shipping charges.

Would you do all this work for only $10 yourself?

I'll consider this question N/A since the $10 is regarding shipping and not the fee.

I cant think of anyone who would do this for free and still be as reliable as the job description would imply. Who knows though -Maybe you will find some helpful volunteers?

Hey, considering the time some Mods put into overseeing some forums, for free, and how much time fanboys spend pushing their knives of choice (Sebenzas, Sypdercos, etc...), for free, I didn't think it was that big a stretch.

Every forum has a small group of dedicated Members who've got some free time. And, an Intermediary thing wouldn't/shouldn't be that time consuming since not every trade/sale is high-end. Again, my initial idea was just to provide an extra buffer of protection to some who wanted it, of course it would cost a little more (by way of a small donation). But, again, considering the entire risk/loss of an expensive knife, I just thought it would be a nice thing to offer. Kind of moot now, though. It's no longer up for consideration.

Btw, reliability also wouldn't have been a factor if the right volunteer had been selected. I mean, we're not talking rocket science here, and some guys in the knife community know this sort of stuff like the back of their hand, and even enjoy it (inspection/handling, etc...). Someone might've even become an authority/expert on the subject in the Knife Community.

Lastly, no one would've been taking advantage of any volunteer who'd take on the task because they'd have been rewarded in other ways (besides acquiring prestige as an Intermediary, a go-to person, so to speak). For instance, they might have been privy to first crack at promotions, special limited stuff, miscellaneous schwag, exclusive discounts, etc..., who knows.

But, again, this deal's dead, now. Maybe the idea will take off on some other forum.