Traditional edge thoughts

[lutejones]

Hey guys, first of all if one of the moderators think this threads is better somewhere else please move it.
As I told in some other threads we are moving to a new home, so the house looks like that right now:

As you could imagine is edge's paradise
In this situation I decided to run a little test of diferent types of sharpening, the old toothy vs polish, and here are the contenders (forget the delica 4 which is what my wife prefers)

the minitrapper and the opi are the more close in grind, so the case is very polish to 8k and the strop for quite a bit and the opi is toothy with the fallkniven DC4 25 micron side and a little strop, the whittler is also very polish since It's my whittling knife but has a thicker grind.
some conclusions:
- opening boxes/cutting tape: Both edges perform very well, but the polish is a little better here, the moment you touch the tape It blows off, with the toothy is also well cut but you need to start the cutting action by moving a little(sawing motion).
- breaking down boxes: In this particular matter I realize that is much more determinant the grind than the edge, both opi and minitrapper have a very nice feeling of gliding through the material, the spy and the whittler is harder due to the thicker grind (more wedge action, less easy to cut).
- antisliding plastic mattress for the drawers: Here is the big difference, I was completely unable to cut this stuff with the polish edge, It just slips, I had to take the toothy edge to cut it. I mean It was not impossible to cut with the polish edge, but the beginning of the cut was a nightmare compared with the grabbing 25 micron edge.

Of course there are a lot more variables in a test like this, but It wasn't my intention to be super scientific, only to run a test to compare on my own.
Hope you like it and you share your opinions.
to end the post one last picture of my wife with a knife, there's something with girls handling tools

see you Mateo
P.S. as a little off topic of traditionals, I actually had to bring the edge of the delica to a toothy edge, because Paula liked it more lika that.

 

[pertinux]

As you could imagine is edge's paradise

Ah, a man with perspective!

In this situation I decided to run a little test of diferent types of sharpening, the old toothy vs polish, and here are the contenders (forget the delica 4 which is what my wife prefers)

Off-topic for this subforum, of course, but she does have good taste....

- antisliding plastic mattress for the drawers: Here is the big difference, I was completely unable to cut this stuff with the polish edge, It just slips, I had to take the toothy edge to cut it. I mean It was not impossible to cut with the polish edge, but the beginning of the cut was a nightmare compared with the grabbing 25 micron edge.

Do you mean material(s) such as this?

Thanks for including this picture:

:thumbup:

Thanks for the write-up, and pictures. I always appreciate demonstrations and discussions of real-world use. You've also given me some ideas to make my next move more bearable, at least in contemplation.



(Where's Tato?)


~ P.

 

[shrapne1]

that is a sweet whittler, any other pics?

 

[lutejones]

Thanks ~P, Tato was actually outside on the backyard, He has great expectation about what we are doing

that is a sweet whittler, any other pics?

Check out this thread you have some beautiful knives in there with close ups.
Mateo

 

[jackknife]

I too have gone to using a toothier edge on my knives. I don't shave with my knife, but I do like a edge that bites into rough cordage and synthetic materials. Not to mention that it takes far less time to put a usable toothy edge on a knife.

Carl.

 

[wouldestous]

probly all the edges i put on knives are toothy by default. im mediocre at sharpening though i can manage to not make a knife duller if i am not being stubborn and quit while im ahead. lol

 

[Dan57]

I've found that toothy edges work better for most tasks.

 

[StuntDouble]

I find myself going for the toothy edges as well. I know there are folks that say polished edges last longer, but I don't find that to be the case in my experience.

 

[richstag]

You can put a toothy edge on a knife that will glide through material like an edge without micro serrations. Its just not as easy to do IMHO.

Polished for large choppers, micro serrations for pocket knives for me.

 

[Humppa]

I agree with most of the opinions here. I like more toothy blades than the polished ones. Especially after stroping leather that´s a nice feeling the edge gives. I don´t keep them razor sharp in general, but it´s a great fun doing this. Really polished edges, I´ve never tried, being honest. Those micro serrations are a little easier to get, for me. But this might be a personal opinion.

However - Mateo; that´s a great "in-field-test" about the difference between sharping. (This is a topic, I could get philosophic... )

 

[DeadFall27]

I never take my knives (unless they are outdoors or for wood work) past 400 grit sandpaper and my strop. I have found that polished edges do not cut as well for everyday tasks as toothy edges do. I don't see the point for me really, I don't baby my knives, so polished edges would be a waste of time. I do things with my blades that some guys here (especially outside of this sub-forum) would have a heart attack over, so why spend all that time on the stones anyway?

 

[jacktrades_nbk]

I don't like polished edges either.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I've become a big believer in the geometry (apex, blade grind) being the far more important factor in whether an edge cuts well or not. The 'polished vs. toothy' question seldom enters into it, for me, if the geometry is good. Most all of my edges are finished in the 600 - 2000 grit range (as it relates to wet/dry sandpaper standards) or a little more, and they all seem to do well. I think the biggest advantage I see with high polish, is in cardboard cutting with relatively thick blades. A polished convex makes a huge difference there. Also does quite well with cutting heavy/stiff plastics, where a less-polished blade sometimes binds up in the material, due to friction on the sides of the blade or bevel.

 

[richstag]

David,

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. Geometry cuts. The apex is a part of that geometry.

Sure a dull saw will cut something that a straight edge ruler will not. But sharp is sharp when its still sharp.

 

[lutejones]

David,

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. Geometry cuts. The apex is a part of that geometry.

Sure a dull saw will cut something that a straight edge ruler will not. But sharp is sharp when its still sharp.

I partially agree with you, in fact I love polished edges. As you said geometry is important and sharper is sharper, but practically speaking having a medium fine pocket stone is the way to always(I mean always, even when you hit a nail) have your blade shaving sharp, not far beyond shaving, but shaving sharp in the end.

Love these discussions

Mateo

 

[richstag]

Yeah, Mateo, I'm really not trying to enforce some right or wrong. Just right and wrong for my day to day. I believe the translucent I use is about 900 grit in sandpaper numbers. So it a pretty fine microserration. Why I said it can be challenging is removing the burr and refining the microserrations without simply removing them since they were not made as large as a coarse or medium stone would.

I like the conversations too and don't ever mind hearing preferences. When I use sandpapers 320 gives me killer working edges that melt through newspaper too

Just chatting with you.

 

[jackknife]

Of late, I've been using the bottom of coffee mugs to touch up my pocket knife blades. The unglazed ceramic seems to put a very nice toothy biting edge on the blade. The only problem I've run into is, there does not seem to be any industry standard for the grit on the bottom of most coffee mugs. I have a mug that was a give away from a local savings and loan that is almost perfect, while another mug that was a souvenir from the Smoky Mountain National park is way too course. More like a cement step. The coffee mugs at our Friday morning old farts breakfast are very nice, giving a very sharp slicing edge. So if you happen to be in Dempsey's restaurant in Middletown Maryland, turn over the mug and have at it. If Penny the waitress give you any grief, just tell her that Carl said it was okay.

By the way, try their sausage gravy over a fresh biscuit.:thumbup:

Carl.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

David,

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. Geometry cuts. The apex is a part of that geometry.

Sure a dull saw will cut something that a straight edge ruler will not. But sharp is sharp when its still sharp.

I was noticing the importance of the blade geometry yesterday, in tinkering with a cheap old paring knife. The (stainless) steel in it is very coarse-grained, so the blade doesn't take or retain a very fine edge at all. Won't shave hair at all, and sort of haltingly slices through phonebook paper. Almost no burr formation either; when the edge gets almost thin enough to form a burr, the steel at the very edge just seems to crumble away. The 'upside' to that is, when it does crumble away, that coarse grain leaves an edge that mimics 'toothy', somewhat. Being that the edge's apex itself has some pretty significant limitations, I ended up just thinning down the shoulders of the bevel, and that alone makes a noticeable improvement in how it slices. Even with an edge that most of us would consider 'dull', it still works pretty well for it's intended purpose (fruits, veggies, etc.; even slices tomatos pretty decently).

 

[zippofan]

Of late, I've been using the bottom of coffee mugs to touch up my pocket knife blades. The unglazed ceramic seems to put a very nice toothy biting edge on the blade. The only problem I've run into is, there does not seem to be any industry standard for the grit on the bottom of most coffee mugs. I have a mug that was a give away from a local savings and loan that is almost perfect, while another mug that was a souvenir from the Smoky Mountain National park is way too course. More like a cement step. The coffee mugs at our Friday morning old farts breakfast are very nice, giving a very sharp slicing edge. So if you happen to be in Dempsey's restaurant in Middletown Maryland, turn over the mug and have at it. If Penny the waitress give you any grief, just tell her that Carl said it was okay.

By the way, try their sausage gravy over a fresh biscuit.:thumbup:

Carl.

LOL Carl, I just got this image of a bunch of knife nuts lining up at Dempsey's restaurant for biscuits and sausage gravy and coffee, sitting in their booths/tables talking about knives while sharpening their EDC's on the coffee mugs!

Did I mention that I love biscuits with sausage gravy? mmmm yeah, and not a lot of PA greasy spoons have decent gravy, too greasy. <bang head> I have to go south of the Mason-Dixon line to get good gravy with my biscuits.
The scrapple here however is first rate!

Cheers,
Griff

 

[richstag]

David,

Nice depiction of yet another set of variables that could come into this conversation

Here is a picture I took of my brother cutting up frozen bait for a shark fishing research trip I went along for

This is obvious and I know I am not teaching you anything, but if I ground off those serrations and gave it a mirror edge we would not have had much bait

I took with myself a very expensive knife that I put an edge on with my XXCoarse DMT Bench Stone. The edge was hair popping and very toothy. I was able to saw through about a quarter of the frozen bait before I said this is not worth it. It would chop through like a clever, but again, who is going to rely on that all day long cutting up frozen bait.

I have encountered way too many situations where trying to pick one blade type, edge type, edge finish is not a DO IT ALL

In every case it comes down to a whole lot of factors.

Kevin