Traditional Folders.............Traditional Steel?

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Apr 24, 2001
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I hope I am in the right place for this........sorta question. I hope, after the first of the year to move my knifemaking in a different direction. I have made a few slipjoints over the years but really want to concentrate on them in the near future. Even though we are in the age of the super stainless steels, I would like to use mostly carbon steels for the blades. I have a few nice old folders in my collection. A lot of the blades are nearly mint other than being dark. I would like to hear some opinions on this.
 
I love slippies but I prefer stainless steel blades and backsprings - ATS-34, 154CM, S30v, CPM154, etc.
 
I used to dislike carbon steel just because I had problems with rust. I no longer work in a job where I get soaked at odd times during the day, so that problem has disappeared. I like the look of a patina on an old carbon blade. I am less fond of the look of some of the forced patinas I have seen, but that is personal preference.

In knives at the price point of custom slipjoints, you might sell more pieces in stainless, but I doubt it. I suspect that most of the buyers in that market segment will appreciate a good carbon steel.
 
Favorite steel is D2, WT Fuller, knifemaker of the 70's & 80's, that worked with Harvey McBurnette and Dick Dorough , convinced me that is was the best. Of course they did not have all the fancy steels available to them that the modern maker does, but D2 is still a great steel.

James
 
Hello David,

Thanks for taking the time to ask us our opinions..I love the idea of another knife maker using Carbon steel for blades, matter of fact it would really attract me and the knife folks I share ideas with..D2, 1095 or just plain old CV steel would be just great to this knifer...

Please be sure to include a picture or two once you get a few made and maybe throw in a web url...

Thanks and take care,

Sunburst
 
I don't buy any slippies (other than SAKs) with stainless. If it isn't Carbon steel, it ain't coming home with me. Personnal preferance I know...but the blades must turn black with use.
 
I love slippies too... All things being equal, I've got to admit that on a custom I'm more likely to go stainless.

Mike
 
I'll admit to having mixed feeling on it. I'll also go on record as saying I have a very strong predjudice for carbon steel, and lean toward plain 1095, or 5160.

But, and this is a big BUT, I've used production stainless and been happy with it. In 1967 I bought a Buck 301 stockman at an army PX, and for the next twenty something years it did just about everything I had to do with a pocket knife, and did it well. I also used a sak durring the 70's and it did well. Durring the late 80's I went back to using carbon steel in knives like Eye-brand, and Case sodbusters and Opinels. It did great.

I think that in the end it depends more on the quality of heat treat, and blade design and profile than steel. Stainless is less forgiving in heat treat, with a much narrower window in time and degrees, where simple carbon steel is more forgiving. But if one has the facilities and know how, like Paul Bos, you can end up with a stainless knife thats way better than a carbon blade made and heat treated by knifemaker X who may not be as good.

All in all, in the end if I were having a custom pocket knife made, I'd preffer a carbon steel. I have a gut level mistrust of the more complex stainless for knives. They may be the hot lick steels of the moment, but in the end all I want to do is cut something. I'm not interested in a steel thats used to make jet turbine fan blades or some other exotic use. A knife is a low tech tool.

If I may play the devils advocate,

If stainless is so good, why are Stanley utility blades, machetes, axes, and saws made out carbon tool steel. As is most using puuko's. Not to mention most tools. Certainly with the humid damp conditions of cental American jungles a stainless blade for Collins, Tramontina, and other brand machetes popular in Costa Rica and nieghboring areas, would be a plus. With modern production machinery 400 series blades could be blanked out with little trouble, but the simple carbon steel stays the norm.

Once in a great while I torment myself by doing cutting tests of knives. The kitchen floor will be ankle deep in sliced cardboard, shredded hemp, and the old lady will think I've lost my mind. I've tried to use all the modern stainless steels, borrowing a knife from a friend if I have to get a example of the new hot lick steel. After slicing till I have "cutting cramp" of the right hand I usually find the simple carbon steel has out preformed some of the lastest and greatest. But will it make a difference in day to day us? I doubt it. But if I'm shelling out the dough for a custom, I want the capability of the carbon there, if needed.

Kind of like shelling out the dough for a Porshe. If it's not faster than a Honda whats the extra money for?

Theres another side to the coin as well. Sooner or later I'll have to sharpen that knife. Not being a Ginso its inevitable. In my experiance the higher end stainless steels at some of the higher Rockwell numbers they have advertised is difficult to sharpen with minimum equiptment in the field. I like to be able to sit down on a log on the woods, or the tail gate of my truck, and in a couple of minutes sharpen my pocket knife on the little eze-lap hone I have in my wallet. To me ease of sharpening is important.

Carbon seems to be the best compromise of many blade qualities combining good edge holding, ease of sharpening in the field, ability to stand up to mild abuse without edge chipping, not to mention the ability to turn into that lovely grey patina that will go so well with the buttery yellow of the stag handles years down the line.

I think a shiney stainless blade would offend my sense of something when the rest of the knife has shown its age in the golden patine of stag. And if I'm getting a custom knife, it will have stag on it.
 
I prefer on a traditional patters a traditional steel.
They're easier to sharpen, take an incredible edge and I really like that
they get older, like everyone of us too :)
One of my favorite slippies is a Lütters rope-knife, carbon steel sheepfoot blade,
iron bolsters, carbon steel back spring, iron pins, on this slippie just everything get's older
with time and now is covered with a nice, dark grey patina.

Shure, modern high end stainless steels have the same cutting ability, but they're expensive.
I prefer the working man slippies, like they have been around since far over 100 yers.

On the other side, I really like my VIC farmer.
 
From a business standpoint, mix it up by making some with traditional steels and some with the new stainless steels.

Personally, the first thing I look for is execution, fit, and finish. If it catches my eye. . . . .I can deal with the steel. :D
 
I'm a carbon steel guy myself, something like good old 1095 does me right and is a good compromise of edge-holding ability and ease of sharpening in the field or home. One think I like about traditional slip joints is that the blades themselves are so thin. They seem to cut through anything with much less effort than even medium-sized modern knives. I've learned that blade geometry is as important, if not more important, than having the latest wonder steel. Get a blade thin enough to be optimized for cutting (as opposed to prying or twisting), use it only for cutting, and you will have a better tool for what a knife is intended.

That said, I do like D2 a lot, which is a tool steel. It keeps its razor edge longer than any of the "latest and greatest" steels I have experienced, and field sharpens well, too. I'd take a folder of either, but I admit I like the dark grey color of a well-earned patina, especially up against natural scales like red bone or stag. The D2 will patina, especially if you use it on acidic media, but it will take longer.
 
I like carbon steel in a fixed blade where I can inspect everywhere and clean everywhere.

In a folder... it depends on whether it's a slow-oxidizer or a quick-oxidizer.

I suppose something like O1 or 1095 in a folder blade would be scary; I would be leery of a folder using O1 in a spring or lockbar simply due to the fact that I wouldn't be able to sufficiently protect/cover/clean those areas.

Something like a high polish A2 or something might work out better.

-j
 
I prefer a good carbon steel in my slippies. I'll be looking forward to getting one of your slip joints.
 
Mr. Winston, some questions for you.

Why do you want to make your slipjoints in non-stainless steel? Easier to work, cost of materials, can heat treat at home? Tradition? What's your reason?

Do you wish to make money at knifemaking or is it more "art" than business for you? The market pretty much says stainless for both custom and production knives. There is a niche for non-stainless, but they don't usually spend more than $200 and can be real picky :)

What about springs and liners, non-stainless steel too? Pins? Bolsters? I have one of the Northwoods scagels that's all 1095. Rust is bitch on the blade, liners and spring. It's easier to care for it on the blade, but damned hard on the liners and spring. However, I knew it in advance and am one of the few people willing to pay $200 for a knife that will rust and pit. However, the problems with non-stainless steel is why I didn't buy the Northwoods scagel barlow with not only 1095 liners, spring, blade but also its non-stainless steel bolsters. One non-stainless high dollar slipjoint was enough for me.
 
Actually, it is not a matter of what I want or what I can heat treat, since I work with several steels, both carbon and stainless and have always done my own heat treat. Granted some steels are easier to work than others. I am mostly trying to find out what the people who buy slip joints like. As for the money it is my experience that the $$/hour goes way down when you go from a small hunter to any kind of folder.

I appreciate everyone's feedback on this.
 
I'll add my thoughts, for what it's worth. I prefer stainless steel for custom slip joints. I find that I can do just about anything I need to do, cutting wise, with a well ground ATS-34 or CPM154 blade. I don't have any trouble keeping them sharp. That said, I do own a few carbon Damascus bladed slip joints and they don't take much to maintain, so far.

I've got a number of forged carbon steel fixed blades, so it's not that I'm anti high carbon steel. I just feel that something that is going to ride in my pocket and has all those little places for rust to form, is better suited to stainless steel.

Gary
 
Yep a nice carbon blade is good. I like to let patina build up my carbon blades.
I do like D2 as well. In carbon I like 01,52100, 1095.
David I'm sure you will choose well, look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Cheers
Mitch
 
I like to mix it up. I like to carry my custom slipjoints, so I usually stay away from stainless steels that are known for their finish qualities unless its a "museum piece." I would rather have a machine finish and an exotic stainless than a hand rubbed middle of the road steel like ATS34. On the carbon steel side, I like A-2 and O-1 a lot, but I like it a lot more if it has an acid etch patina from the maker. They look a lot better over time than a spotty/shiny combo. I personally don't care for D-2 much. The sweat from my skin or hands is enough to discolor the spring. I also think D-2 springs pit more than other steels. Plus, you can't acid etch to put on a patina on D-2 as far as I know.

I say, mix it up and offer some options...some using steels with working finishes both carbon and stainless, and some classy steels with fine, hand rubbed finishes.
 
I'd really prefer carbon steel in a slipjoint, as it gets used and a patina develops it really adds a bit of character to the piece. Of course it depends on if you are planning to enter the safe queen market or the user market, safe queen then ss, user carbon steel. when you get cranked up post some pics so we can drool. thanks,ahgar
 
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