Traditional issue?

The Fort

The Fort

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
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At what point, and why, did a little bit of side to side blade play become such a concern to some folks in traditional folders? Was it because so many of the modern locking folders were described as locking up "like a bank vault "? I'm sure that many years ago, it was never even thought about. Personally, if a blade has a nice snap open and closed, it's acceptable. What do you all think about this?
 
For the most part, I would agree, especially with older, used knives. Traditionals aren't built with high precision roller bearings...they pivot on pins in a frame riveted with a ship between the blade and frame. However, the blade shouldn't flop around on the pivot, either. For me, smooth action and a snap are plenty.
 
I've always considered side to side blade play on a "traditional" to be a sign of shoddy workmanship, and a deal killer. Even when I was a kid, back in the 1960's, when all there were was "traditional" knives.
 
It used to be a pet peeve of mine growing up but has become tolerable of late. A little that is. Major play is a deal breaker.
 
Any play in the blade is a no go for me. Why, why would I want a knife with a blade that isn't tight when companies are capable of making them without blade play.
 
I can do without play in the pivot. During some tasks the movement is, at least, annoying and at worst takes away from precision during cutting.

In a word : Nah dude, nah.
:)

PS: even seven dollar Stanley retractable box knives I don't like the play in the blade. Was thinking / experiencing just that yesterday. Was thinking I might shim my non retractable to get all the play out. I use it to pick sharp, embedded, debris out of rubber goods.
 
I honestly don't think of myself as a hard-to-please customer. I rarely complain about a poorly sharpened blade on a new knife, since any user knife will have to be sharpened sooner or later, and if it isn't a user, who cares if it's dull? Until I joined the forum, I'd never given a thought to blade rub. As long as they don't hang up or hit the edge opening and closing, it doesn't bother me. Mismatched dye-job on the covers? That's just more character! :D

So...I will allow myself this instance of pickiness. I don't like blade wobble. I've learned to barely tolerate side movement in old knives. It's unacceptable in a new one. I have a few 100 year old knives that are as solid as anything you can buy today, so it's not like it can't be done even without high precision technology.

I imagine many years ago, this was something customers cared about just as much, if not more than today. If you only had one knife to do your daily work, you'd want it to be well fitted when it comes to basic mechanical function, even if you didn't care about cosmetics.
 
I'll accept a fairly liberal amount of wear and tear when buying an older knife but will pass on it if it has any blade wobble. On a new knife, side-to-side play is simply unacceptable.
 
The Fort said:
At what point, and why, did a little bit of side to side blade play become such a concern to some folks in traditional folders? Was it because so many of the modern locking folders were described as locking up "like a bank vault "? I'm sure that many years ago, it was never even thought about. Personally, if a blade has a nice snap open and closed, it's acceptable. What do you all think about this?
Click to expand...

Don't know when. But IMO, opinions have changed over time.

I had a couple of knives with a bit of wobble growing up in the 50's and 60's. And I didn't really think anything of it. The small bit of wobble didn't interfere with the function of the knife, and for me it was just a tool in my pocket. I wasn't proud of it or displaying it. So if it worked, it was a good knife.

Anymore I'm fussy about it, though. Mostly because I can afford to be. And I think also because it isn't hard to find a knife that does not wobble.
 
They're easy enough to squeeze tighter, at least if there are bolsters. My slopophopia probably goes back to the 60s. Nice of Victorinox to fix my first SAK after what I did to it.
 
Personally, I found I was more tolerant of side play when knives cost less money. If I am paying extra money for a knife to be made by people who claim their products are of greater value, they should demonstrate this additional value in superior materials, fit and finish.
 
To me side play is only an issue if you notice it in normal use. This business of grabbing the tip of a knife and twisting it side to side to check for blade play is silly, and puts unnecessary and abnormal stress on a folder. If slightly loose gives better walk and talk, I'll take that every time.
 
Bartleby said:
Personally, I found I was more tolerant of side play when knives cost less money. If I am paying extra money for a knife to be made by people who claim their products are of greater value, they should demonstrate this additional value in superior materials, fit and finish.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty much the same. The most recent Case I purchased was a Bose teardrop jack in ebony. It has a bit of wiggle. It's a bit irksome, but I can live with it considering the price. The last several GECs I've purchased (a few F&Fs, a 13 congress, and a 48 Weasel) are rock solid. Actually, the most recent Case I bought was a chestnut CV peanut, and it was rock solid, but the main blade was proud when closed so I had to return it.

I probably won't be buying any more Cases unless there's something special. GEC has been knocking it out of the park lately.

In response to the OP's question, the reason, to me, in my mind, is that a traditional knife is representative of an age of pride in craftsmanship. Blade wobble means a lack of that. A wobbly blade, as long as it's not too wobbly, doesn't really affect function. A bad liner lock or framelock is different because these are different knives with different mechanics used in a different way. When I open and close (and open and close and open and close) my 48 Weasel, I can feel that the people that made this knife made it with the pride that they made a quality knife. But when i get a Case where the blade wobbles or there's gaps in the liners or the blade grind is crap, I can feel that it was made on an assembly line by people that don't give a damn.

From my own personal perspective, I take pride in what I do, although it's rather insignificant. I make pizzas for an international chain. The food is...mediocre. I have no control over that. But I make a damn good looking pizza with it. I make them better than the ones you see on the menus and TV ads. My co-workers - some of them make great pizzas too, some of them make garbage. But when I make you a pizza, I make it good. Even if you were a jerk or idiot on the phone, I do my job and I do it to the best of my ability. Because as insignificant as it is it's still my "craft" and I take pride in it. You're eating something that I crafted by hand, and I don't want me or my name to be associated with an inferior product.

That's how I feel about the knives I buy and carry.
 
Never liked it myself either, especially when you can pick up about any SAK and not see the play, maybe in a hard used one, but I think that would be rare. They peen the pivots but good traditional folders should be the same as well.

G2
 
For me a blade play is deal breaker. I seldom times fix a play on a knife myself if I really like the knife and want to keep it, otherwise it goes back to the seller.

Mike
 
It depends on context and degree. It's also relative to other things.

On a brand new knife bought retail from a store, I'd probably either send it in for repair or return it. I have returned knives from Queen, Case and GEC for that reason. Lots from Queen. Few from Case and even fewer from GEC. They were from GEC's early years and I haven't had a problem recently. Two of the most solid knives that I've owned are a GEC 66 and a Case sowbelly. Case has really tightened up the recent sowbelly knives compared to the ones made pre vault.

On the secondary market, I'd want the price to reflect any defects. I may or may not buy a new knife with some play. Depends on the degree, price and rarity, etc. For an antique, condition is much more important. Knives that are well preserved are much less common than knives that have been reworked or buffed. There are certainly antiques that have no play at all. But condition is much more important. If there's no play on an old knife and the bolsters are buffed, then blade play could have been repaired... or a blade could have been swapped. Everything needs to be factored when determining the value but original condition is much more important when preserving old knives.
 
As I've become a more discriminating buyer of slip joint folders, I've become more critical of what kind of workmanship I'm willing to accept. The deal breaker for me is discernible side to side blade play. It's just not that hard to get it right.

I've got knives that are many decades old that have blade play. They earned it by being used a lot. On a new knife, to me, it's an indication of shoddy workmanship or non existent quality control.

I'll close by saying, I can't recall receiving a knife with blade play in decades, and that's probably on the order of 100 or so custom and factory slip joints. That includes RR, Case, Schrade, Canal Street, Boker, Queen and GEC.
 
The Fort said:
At what point, and why, did a little bit of side to side blade play become such a concern to some folks in traditional folders? Was it because so many of the modern locking folders were described as locking up "like a bank vault "? I'm sure that many years ago, it was never even thought about. Personally, if a blade has a nice snap open and closed, it's acceptable. What do you all think about this?
Click to expand...

When they stopped being simple, common tools to be used up and replaced as needed. The second it becomes a luxury, it has to be perfect. That is human nature.
 
So for those that can't tolerate any wobble or looseness, what do you guys/gals do with a knife that was rock solid when you got it but with use and time has developed a little wobble/looseness - toss it aside in a drawer or box never to see the light of day again and go buy a new one?
 
The fact that a slip joint might develop some blade play with use is precisely the reason that I prefer no blade play on a new knife. I like to start from ground zero, so to speak. If it already has blade play out of the box, it might as well not be a new knife.

If I create the blade play by my own usage then I'm fine with that but on a new knife I consider it a flaw.
 
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