Traditional Knife Steel Preference and Quality

C

Coleman71

Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
7
I know that there are exceptions to the general consensus about the poor quality of Chinese and Pakistani steel, but I think what gets most people to buy them are either their lack of knowledge/research or the overall look of the knife (some look really nice).

I've noticed recently (mainly in the big-box stores like Walmart) that manufacturers package their knives so that you can't see the country of origin on the tang.

As I've stated in other posts, I prefer Case knives, and one of the reasons why I stick with them is because of the fact that their steel is manufactured in the USA.

I have some Chinese and Pakistani knives, and for me they work well -- they are of sound construction, take an edge easily, and hold an edge. I recently got a "work knife" sodbuster design off eBay and was pleased overall with the knife. I showed it to one of my buddies, and the first thing that drew his eye was the word "Pakistan" in bold, black letters along the blade (not on the tang).

I don't want to sound like a "knife snob", but it kind if embarrassed me.

What are some good knives (traditional folders) that you know of in the $30-$40 range that are quality knives not made in the USA?

Also, is it just me, or am I being a kind of elitist when it comes to steel choice? I don't buy really expensive knives, since I actually use them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This conversation comes up regularly for some reason.

To answer your specific question, AG Russell sells traditional knives made to his specs that are manufactured in China, and they are high quality knives.

Just so you know, true steel snobs don't think especially highly of the Case steels either.

There are other countries besides the US and China. 194 or so. Switzerland (Victorinox), France (Opinel), Japan, and Germany make fine quality knives. I'm sure there are others out there that I am not familiar with.
 
Coleman71 said:
....I have some Chinese and Pakistani knives, and for me they work well -- they are of sound construction, take an edge easily, and hold an edge. I recently got a "work knife" sodbuster design off eBay and was pleased overall with the knife. I showed it to one of my buddies, and the first thing that drew his eye was the word "Pakistan" in bold, black letters along the blade (not on the tang).

I don't want to sound like a "knife snob", but it kind if embarrassed me.

What are some good knives (traditional folders) that you know of in the $30-$40 range that are quality knives not made in the USA?

Also, is it just me, or am I being a kind of elitist when it comes to steel choice? I don't buy really expensive knives, since I actually use them.
Click to expand...

In addition to what is already mentioned, I would look at Boker. If you hunt around, you can find some of the German-made Bokers in the price range you mention, and they are very good knives for that price, in my experience.

As far as what other people think of your knives - who cares. If you have a knife that you feel is "of sound construction, takes an edge easily, and holds an edge," then enjoy using the functional tool that you have, and let the snobs feel superior if that's what they need.
 
I wouldn't get too wrapped up in where the knife was made, it's more important to understand who manufactured it and what steels were used. The Spyderco Tenacious is a great example, awesome knife, only costs ~$40, made in China using Chinese 8cr13mov steel, though it's a tactical folder style knife, not traditional style, just a good example of decent knives coming from places like China.
 
Let's keep it traditional knives only please. Thread title edited to reflect that. Thanks.
 
Coleman71 said:
Also, is it just me, or am I being a kind of elitist when it comes to steel choice?
Click to expand...

Not elitist at all. The meat of a knife is in the blade. I want a steel chosen for its performance, not because it stays shiny longer or because it is easiest for the manufacturer to work with.

Coleman71 said:
I don't buy really expensive knives, since I actually use them.
Click to expand...

Rubbish. Plenty of us use our expensive knives. Unlike an Aston Martin DBS a fine pocketknife is within financial reach for most people. Claiming that the people who buy "really expensive knives" don't actually use them smacks of ignorance or envy.

- Christian
 
Peregrin said:
Let's keep it traditional knives only please. Thread title edited to reflect that. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry about that, didn't notice we were talking purely traditionals until after I made the post, then tried to edit it a bit but still not too relevant, feel free to delete it.
 
It must be envy. I would LOVE to have some more expensive knives, but I don't think I could justify that large a purchase. Personally, I think that I would obsess over every scratch, every dent, etc. Sometimes I think I have lots of knives (my wife thinks I have too many), and other times, I think I need a few more. As far as my preference for Case knives, I think it's more nostalgic. I do have some SAK's that I absolutely love.
 
The Swiss Victorinox knives use a stainless steel that is better (completely subjective) than Case's Tru-Sharp, which is about the minimum performance I will accept from a pocket knife steel. Rough Rider's Chinese equivalent of 440A and Buck's USA made 420HC are both better than Tru-Sharp as well. All of these can be found for under $40, with the RRs being well under. For just a little over your price range you can buy Queen knives in D2 steel, which is harder to sharpen than the above, but holds an edge much longer.
 
I may be the only one but the only thing i care about in knife steels is i like carbon over stainless. I will pick a carbon over a stainless any day but some knives i like that aint got a carbon model like the buck 110. If i have the choice for carbon i pick it. I personally don't care what carbon steel it is though 1095,01,D2 for some reason it just dont bother me.
 
Hi,

I'm not overly concerned too much about steels in my slip-joints. I think build quality matters more than how fancy the steel is. To butcher an old Billy Cyrstal character, "It is better to look good than be good." After all, when was the last time you needed to stab a charging 1 ton pickup with your Barlow. Or had to baton your way through 8" of re-enforced concrete with a Peanut? Well, there was that whole "tactical Peanut" craze a few years ago. But everyone soon regained their senses and when back to the Smatchet. :D

And while, like many here, I prefer a good plain carbon steel over stainless I agree with black mamba. Rough Rider does 440A about as well as anybody these days. I still keep some favorites around, they are hard to beat for sheer value. Buck's Bose HT 420HC is superb. I wish it was available on more traditionals. I do even like Case's Tru-Sharp. Easy to sharpen and very usable. In fact I just bought a new Case blue jigged bone Stockman a couple of weeks ago. Simply to have more than just my Buck 303 to choose from in stainless. Someday I will get something from GEC in 440C. And while I like my Queen D2 Whittler, it's a bugger to sharpen. I still use simple Norton India and natural Arkansas stones to sharpen.

A couple inexpensive steels I'd like to see tried - AUS8/8Cr13MoV.

Dale
 
ackblade24 said:
I may be the only one but the only thing i care about in knife steels is i like carbon over stainless. I will pick a carbon over a stainless any day but some knives i like that aint got a carbon model like the buck 110. If i have the choice for carbon i pick it. I personally don't care what carbon steel it is though 1095,01,D2 for some reason it just dont bother me.
Click to expand...

D2 can be classified as many things. "Carbon steel" is not one of them.

Coleman71 said:
What are some good knives (traditional folders) that you know of in the $30-$40 range that are quality knives not made in the USA?
Click to expand...
In addition to AG Russell and Boker mentioned above, to both of which I will add a big +1 there are:
  • Some of the Colt knives are about in that price range, and I hear good things about them.
  • A bit out of your price range, but Moki makes some superlative knives which could be considered traditional patterns.
  • Victorinox knives fit within the realm of Traditional, and are made in Switzerland.
  • EKA makes some very nice folders, which again could be considered Traditional. They are in Sweden.
  • There are some nice Italian, French, and Spanish traditional patterns out there, too.
 
black mamba said:
The Swiss Victorinox knives use a stainless steel that is better (completely subjective) than Case's Tru-Sharp, which is about the minimum performance I will accept from a pocket knife steel. Rough Rider's Chinese equivalent of 440A and Buck's USA made 420HC are both better than Tru-Sharp as well.

-snip-
Click to expand...

This has been my experience as well.....
 
Coleman71 said:
Also, is it just me, or am I being a kind of elitist when it comes to steel choice? I don't buy really expensive knives, since I actually use them.
Click to expand...

I don't think you are a steel snob because you have or might be developing a preference. The best way to tell if a steel suits your needs is to actually use a few examples of it, then see how it works out for you. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. And vice versa. To me, the trick is to find a good steel you like that balances wear, edge retention and usability and how often you have to sharpen it against its cost to purchase.

"I don't buy really expensive knives, since I actually use them"

I think I know what you meant, but you need to be careful around here with that kind of language. If you mean that you use them on a job site, as a forest ranger, rancher or farmer, or any other kind of hard nasty work on a daily basis and you don't want them damaged or lost during a routine work day, I get it.

Sometimes I use my knives in a way that is pretty hard on them, not as they are designed due to expedience of circumstance. I don't want my nice Queen knives to fall in the tar bucket, fall out of my nail bags while on a scaffold and clatter across the concrete, or have my old Case slide off a roof and land in a muddy puddle if I slip and knock it off.

With my offshore knives that cost much less, I use them hard and don't worry about their welfare. I wash them off with charcoal lighter fluid to remove tar and caulk and regrind damaged edges and tips. While a couple have become favorites after years of use, the others are utility tools. I find I am much less protective and of an inexpensive knife and much more protective of the expensive ones.

However, what makes and expensive knife? If you spend a $100 on a knife and it lasts 10 years, then .83 a month doesn't sound like much. I have a couple of older Case knives that have only been used as knives even in my construction job (as opposed to prying, turning screws, cutting extra hard and dirty material, etc.) and while they show a fair amount of wear they are still going strong. One is a vintage '69, and the other I bought myself and carried almost exclusively for 10 years as a trade carpenter in '76. Off and on since then for the '76, but think what a bargain that knife has been. The jigged scales are pretty smooth and very discolored from hand grime and cleaning solvents, one of the springs is a bit weak, and the heads of two scale pins are gone, so I am thinking it is about 1/4 used at this point. Maybe less.

A well made traditional knife can really take the work, and is quite a bargain. You do the math since that '76 vintage knife is 38 years old and figure out if it was worth the money.

That being said, as has been pointed out, there are a lot of nice off shore offerings. I only have a few these days, but all are great knives. The last one I bought that really stuck out was a Colt teardrop jack. It is outstanding in every way. A bit more than the RR knives but the fit and finish is exemplary and the steel holds an edge very well. If I didn't know better, I would think this was a $75 - $90 knife.

Robert
 
Last edited:
Case's main market is collectors, which is why the vast majority of their current knives are stainless steel. Historically (pre 80's) though, the vast majority of their knives were made with carbon/alloy (non-stainless) steel. Even so, Case hardens their stainless "Tru-Sharp" steel (which is 420HC) softer than others so that it mimics the ease of sharpening of their old carbon or newer CV steel blades. Thankfully they still make plenty (although, never enough, by our standards) of their knives with CV steel for those of us who like knives we can use rather than just sit around looking pretty behind glass.

If you're looking for an inexpensive carbon steel traditional knife, Case is the obvious choice, but not the only one. Boker (German) still makes great knives in carbon steel. Great Eastern Cutlery makes fantastic knives all-around, and their Farm and Field line (with O-1 tool steel) is affordable and one of the best working-man's knives you can get. And, of course, you can still find USA-made Schrades all over the place (eBay, flea markets, old hardware stores), and Camillus (or Camillus made) for under $50, and they're great.

Unless you go custom, you're not going to find traditional knives in current "super" steels. The best you'll get is Case's Tony Bose line which currently uses 154CM (previously ATS-34) as well as a very limited amount of other of their knives, or with Queen/Schatt and Morgan, which use D2 (not new, but still highly respected and with good reason) and ATS-34 in their "File and Wire" line. AG Russel has had lots of traditional knives produced in steels like ATS-34, VG-10, etc. But of course, all the knives in this paragraph are well beyond the "inexpensive" price point.
 
Keeping strictly within the parameters of the Traditionals forum, I lean more towards carbon steel, and I'm not too fussy about the flavour/variety, as long as it takes a killer edge, and resharpens easily, I'm happy

I've been happy with 1095, Case CV, whatever carbon steel Opinel uses, Boker,
All sharpen easily, hold an edge for a decent amount of time, and resharpen easily and quickly

On the stainless side, most to least liked, it'd be Buck 420HC, Victorinox Mystery Steel, Case Tru-Sharp, the few Case stainless knives I've used have left me generally underwhelmed with Tru-Sharp, to the point that I don't even consider looking at their stainless offerings, whereas I have no problem buying a Vic SAK or a Buck using 420HC sight unseen
 
Coleman71 said:
I know that there are exceptions to the general consensus about the poor quality of Chinese and Pakistani steel, but I think what gets most people to buy them are either their lack of knowledge/research or the overall look of the knife (some look really nice).

I've noticed recently (mainly in the big-box stores like Walmart) that manufacturers package their knives so that you can't see the country of origin on the tang.

As I've stated in other posts, I prefer Case knives, and one of the reasons why I stick with them is because of the fact that their steel is manufactured in the USA.

I have some Chinese and Pakistani knives, and for me they work well -- they are of sound construction, take an edge easily, and hold an edge. I recently got a "work knife" sodbuster design off eBay and was pleased overall with the knife. I showed it to one of my buddies, and the first thing that drew his eye was the word "Pakistan" in bold, black letters along the blade (not on the tang).

I don't want to sound like a "knife snob", but it kind if embarrassed me.

What are some good knives (traditional folders) that you know of in the $30-$40 range that are quality knives not made in the USA?

Also, is it just me, or am I being a kind of elitist when it comes to steel choice? I don't buy really expensive knives, since I actually use them.
Click to expand...


Welcome to forum.

In terms of the issue of country of origin as it relates to traditional knives, I prefer to buy knives from manufacturers in the same country or region that the pattern/style of knife is traditionally associated with. A Barlow should come from England or the US. A Puukko should come from Finland (or maybe Sweden, depending on how you think of it). A lock-back hunter, I associated with the US. When "traditional" objects are made in non-traditional countries, they are at best homages to the original which, occasionally can rise to level of art with their own tradition (rare, but possible, as in the case of the Barlow taken from England and redone in the US) and are, at worse a reduction of tradition to the level of trinket. This is how I think of Chinese made Schrades or Bucks, regardless of quality issues. I would think the same of US made mass produced Puukkos sold as imports in Finland. That would just be wrong in the sense of being a violation of the tradition. My 2 cents on that front.

In terms of steel and the source of materials used to make traditional knives (or traditional anything), that's much harder. It's very hard to source all materials entirely from a single country. Not impossible, but hard.

One thing to remember is that steel <> blade. A knife maker may buy a roll of steel from out of the country, but the knife manufacturer still need so stamp/cut the blades, apply the heat treatment and turn the raw steel into a knife blade. There's a huge difference in how different manufacturers do this, witness the different reputations of Case SS and Buck's standard stainless, both of which 420HC with hugely different heat treatments.

I have a very simplistic attitude towards steel. I put things into 4 crude and highly disputable groups:
1) Carbon steel - Usually 1095 but could be similar to 1086 (Opinel) or even 1075 (Condor). Usually tough, takes a fine edge, easily sharpened and might get a teeny bit brittle when pushed to high hardness (some USA Schrades)

2) Decent "feels like carbon" stainless - Small carbides and ends up feeling much like carbon steel. Examples include Buck's 420HC, Opinel and Mora's Sandvik 12C27, Schrade USA's 440A (if there are big carbides there, I don't notice it much). Can be sharpened on normal stones.

3) Good "requires diamond stones" stainless/semi-stainless - Usually large carbides with a toothier edge, more abrasion resistant and harder to sharpen. I think of Buck's 440C and everything else from there on up in this category.

4) Soft "gummy" stainless - Won't hold an edge. Easy to sharpen, sort of. Edges easily fold or wear down. Tendency to form a stubborn wire edge when sharpening. Most cheap kitchen knives are in this category. 440A with crappy heat treatment, Victorinox Inox is in this category as is Case SS and anybody's (including Buck's) 420J2 (all according to my taste and experience).

FWIW, I think Opinels are among the best value, use em hard and don't worry about knives. Great blades, imo.
 
Pinnah, I haven't had my Vic inox for very long yet, but already it seems more like Buck's 420HC than Case's gummy Tru-Sharp.
Time will tell how good it is, but first impression is pretty good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top