traditional sharpening system

BJE

BJE

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Apr 12, 2006
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I am wanting to start using traditional/natural stones even though they are outdated. I just like the thought I guess. Anyway, if you were going to do the same, which stones would you get and why? Also where? I am not going to include water stones at the moment, I am wanting USA rocks only, and I don't want to get into water stones yet as I will buy too many and spend all my money. I am willing to spend around $75 for a good set. I want a complete sharpening system for small carbon steel pocket knives, I won't be working with super steel, just plain ol' CV and some TruSharp. What would you suggest?
 
Maybe try this guy http://www.knifeart.com/8inchtristone.html for starters or this set for a higher finish http://www.knifeart.com/ulsurtris.html if you already have a coarse stone to get material off quickly.

I know you're not looking for waterstones but you asked for experience so here is my .02
I personally have some 8" waterstones and they work really well. 800, 1200 & 6000 grit. I can shape an edge easily on the 1200 and go directly to the 6000 for a mirror finish and I am no expert. I reground the edge on my Queen #51 D2 on this set and D2 is tough steel. The results are very nice and it didn't take very long to do it. I touched up all my pocket and kitchen knives in a short time and now I am left with nothing dull. Once you get started you can't stop! On Case Steel the 1000/4000 would be all you ever need.

Good luck and let us know what you decide!
 
F3X said:
Maybe try this guy http://www.knifeart.com/8inchtristone.html for starters.
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Have you ever used a system like that? That is what I origanally wanted to get, but I want to hear what other people use. Maybe hard and then soft arkansas is a little repetitive. Is there a better combination of stones? I have been reccomended india stones to take the place of the soft/hard arkansas, but I don't know if they will be fine enough. I am also wanting to try a black arkansas if you think it is worth it. I don't have enough experience with anything but the sharpmaker (I have used many other stones, but not exclusively so I don't know which work the best), so I am hoping someone with "natural stone" experience will chime in and tell me what they like to use. I have a Smith's tri hone and it works pretty good, but I can hardly tell a difference between the hard and soft arkansas, it is that way with all of them?
 
What do you think about a combonation 800/4000 like this
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=242&cs=4975&pcs=fam
At that price I would try it. Will that 800 cut as quickly as a course india stone, and would a big jump in grit size like that be hard polish out the 800? Also do you think that 4000 would leave as good a finish as the black/translucent arkansas? I am interested in water stones if I can get a good setup for around $50. I am just a little more familiar with oil stones, so I don't know what to expect with the water stones and I don't want to spend money on a sytem I might not like.
 
I go with what worked for my grandad and dad. I only use one small stone to put a good sharp edge on my pocket knives. I carry an Eze-lap Diamond hone in my wallet. Its very flat, maybe an 1/8 inch think, and I have most of the red plastic handle cut off. It gets the knife almost shaving sharp, and a miniutes stropping on the back of a belt will take it the rest of the way if you want it to shave hair.

When I was growing up, you never heard of sharpening systems. You just had a stone. That stone may have been a soft Arkanssas, or the grey carborundum made out of some kind of bonded aluminum oxide. Our official boy scout stones were those grey ones, and they got a knife real sharp.

You don't need a complete sharpening system for pocket knives like you're talking about. Just get one small pocket size hone/stone and practice with that till you get it down pat. To finish it up, just use your belt. No need to over complicate it like everything else these days.:thumbup:
 
You have a very good point jackknife. I may me missing the whole reason to go back to traditional stones. The only reason I like to have a good set up is when I sharpen for other people and when I get a new knife that needs thinning out or total reshaping like some of the Queens I have gotten. Also, I just like to sharpen and constantly push/refine my skills. It still amazes me when I can tree-top hair and think that I still havn't reached it's full potential. I actually find that is I get a knife too sharp, I won't use it for fear of not being able to replicate that edge. I don't like to have knives that I won't use. It is a mental thing much like owning several knives, I could get live well with only a couple knives, but I still end up with 20 or more. It is part of the fun of collecting, trying new things. My sharpmaker gets knives sharper than I can by hand unless I am very lucky or try very hard. That is why I want to practice more with freehand bench stones so I won't have to rely on the SM so much. Plus it is more fun and relaxing to do it by hand.
 
To best answer your question: I have not used a tri system oil stone I posted, I just searched to see whats out there for your original question.

I can say that if your familiar with the Sharpmaker the Japenese Waterstones are much faster cutting and give a finer polish on the edge in 1/10 the time. Since you have the Sharpmaker to compair to the SM brown rods give a finish about equal to a 1000 Waterstone but it takes a fraction of the time to get a good edge on the Waterstones. I would say 50 strokes on the SM brown is like 15 on the Waterstone if that makes any sense. Of course the Waterstones are bigger and you can really cover a lot of surface area in a few passes. The 6000 cuts so much faster than the SM white and gives a mirror finish to the naked eye in a short time. You can see a huge difference in only 5-10 passes coming off the 1200 stone. You won't remove any material with the 6000 so before you get there be sure the edge is already made on the 1000 or 1200. Most of my blades are in good shape so the 800 hardly gets used.

To answer you question about the nagura stone; No I don't have one, I just rub my washed/cleaned 1200 over the 6000 3-4 times and get a transparent light slurry of new 6000 before I start.

If I were looking again I would get a 1000 and a 4000. That would be a super set for pocket knives. You don't need a mirror edge that the 6000 gets and a little bit rougher edge is good for a everyday knife.

One advantage on separate stones is you can use the coarse to flatten the finer stone.

......................................................................................................

You said you have the Smith Tri Hone and a Sharpmaker already? Are you looking for faster cutting or a finer edge? This would influence what stone to buy. You may get away with only one Waterstone to save some money.

(I made a mistake on my previous post. I have the 800, 1200 and 6000. Not the 4000 Like I posted so I will edit that).

BJE said:
Have you ever used a system like that? That is what I originally wanted to get, but I want to hear what other people use. Maybe hard and then soft arkansas is a little repetitive. Is there a better combination of stones? I have been recommended india stones to take the place of the soft/hard arkansas, but I don't know if they will be fine enough. I am also wanting to try a black arkansas if you think it is worth it. I don't have enough experience with anything but the sharpmaker (I have used many other stones, but not exclusively so I don't know which work the best), so I am hoping someone with "natural stone" experience will chime in and tell me what they like to use. I have a Smith's tri hone and it works pretty good, but I can hardly tell a difference between the hard and soft arkansas, it is that way with all of them?
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BJE said:
What do you think about a combonation 800/4000 like this
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=242&cs=4975&pcs=fam
At that price I would try it. Will that 800 cut as quickly as a course india stone, and would a big jump in grit size like that be hard polish out the 800? Also do you think that 4000 would leave as good a finish as the black/translucent arkansas? I am interested in water stones if I can get a good setup for around $50. I am just a little more familiar with oil stones, so I don't know what to expect with the water stones and I don't want to spend money on a sytem I might not like.
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I just bought my first waterstones a few week ago, a King 800/4000 and a 6000. I tried the common advice and used a slurry with a cutting (edge leading) stroke on the 800. Dull. I didn't get sharp cutting into the slurry. Someone suggested using a stroping (edge trailing) stroke. I used the blade like a squeegee and gently moved the slurry from one end to the other and back again. BINGO! A primary bevel was established and sharp! Nagura stone not advised on 800.

On to the secondary bevel a few degrees higher, stroping all the way on the 4000 and 6000. Since these finer stones are slower to create a slurry, I used the Nagura stone first. BINGO again! Polishing a mirror finish on the finished edge with a glass-smooth hard Arkansas stone created a very sharp knife. My first use of waterstone was a success.

Things I learned on the waterstone path from dull to sharp. The stroping stroke works best for me and minimizes the potential for gouging the stones (it can happen). A light spritz from a water spray bottle conveniently re-wets the stones (don't dilute the slurry too much). The Nagura stone is supposed to help maintain the waterstone (rub it on the high spots to create an initial slurry) which may prolong the life of your waterstones. And , when you walk the waterstone path, Grasshopper, be quiet and LISTEN to the stone. It will talk to you (a Zen thing). :D
 
drail said:
Stones are outdated? Would knives be outdated then too?
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I didn't mean it like that. I just meant they aren't the newest diamond or ceramic sharpeners out. They have been around the block a few times and people don't talk about them as much as the newer stuff. I would call both stones and knives dated but not outdated.
 
I haven't been won over by diamonds, either. Ceramic definately has it's place; whatever they make the Spyderco Sharpmaker rods out off works well. And I emphatically prefer to use a ceramic rod instead of a steel to hone my knives.

But where sharpening is concerned, the "wet rock" is still the State of the Art as far as I'm concerned.:)
 
I bought several DMT diamond stones a year or so ago and I used the heck out of them, but about 4-6 months of regular use, they got smooth and no longer sharpen well, they also don't have the same feel and are too expensive IMO. I also tried some diamond products by lansky and smith's and had the exact same thing happen. They were great at first, but didn't last. I still really like ceramics, it just takes forever to put an edge on anything with them, good for keeping the edge but not course/aggressive enough to use alone. I wish they were better at removing stock, because I like the fact that they ptretty much don't wear/saddle and they have a good responsive feel to them. The prices aren't too bad either, not great but not bad.
 
Jackknife, I took your advice and tried something new. I have a cheap little Smith's pocket (hard or soft I can't tell but I am pretty sure it is soft) arkasas stone. I made sure it was good and flat and I took my Case Peanut (CV) and took my time trying to put a good edge on it. It worked very well, it was already pretty sharp to start with so I am sure it had some effect on the outcome, but it put a very usable edge on the little knife, it would grab hair and cut it with a little force (shaving but not smoothly). I then made a pocket strop out of a scrap piece of leather and glued it to a piece of a 5gal. paint stirring paddle. It took the edge a little further and it would shave hair somewhat easily, I would say comparable to the sharpmaker medium rods. I then cut up some lemons with it and it cut like a dream, the toothy edge it left sliced well. I was so impressed that I left the utility edge on it to see how I like it for a day I can make a new edge. Thanks for the tip on keeping things simple, it is so easy to over-complicate things.
 
I use a DMT to flatten my waterstones and it works great for that. Occasionally I'll use it on a knife, but it's not really my cup of tea for that.
 
BJE said:
Jackknife, I took your advice and tried something new. I have a cheap little Smith's pocket (hard or soft I can't tell but I am pretty sure it is soft) arkasas stone. I made sure it was good and flat and I took my Case Peanut (CV) and took my time trying to put a good edge on it. It worked very well, it was already pretty sharp to start with so I am sure it had some effect on the outcome, but it put a very usable edge on the little knife, it would grab hair and cut it with a little force (shaving but not smoothly). I then made a pocket strop out of a scrap piece of leather and glued it to a 5gal. paint stirring paddle. It took the edge a little further and it would shave hair somewhat easily, I would say comparable to the sharpmaker medium rods. I then cut up some lemons with it and it cut like a dream, the toothy edge it left sliced well. I was so impressed that I left the utility edge on it to see how I like it for a day I can make a new edge. Thanks for the tip on keeping things simple, it is so easy to over-complicate things.
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Smith's makes good stones, they've been in buisness a long time. That pocket stone will be all you need for a very long time. It will get your knife as sharp as you need it for real world use, and with a bit of stropping, it will get shaving sharp. There is no rocket science to sharpening a knife and you don't need fancy gear or gadjets to do it. In fact, I think becoming dependant on gadjets has a crippling effect on you. Think of it this way, can you put a sharpmaker or any of those things in your pocket and take them with you when you leave the house?

Learning to sharpen and keep up your knife with a small very portable stone is better in the long run, as you will be able to touch up your knife anytime, anyplace, in just a few minutes. Thats the reason I carry that cut down Eze-lap model L in my wallet. Its the only tool I use these days to sharpen my knife, as its always there in my wallet. A final touchup on the back of my belt, and the blade is sharp.

Leave the over complication to the rocket scientists.
 
I am not sure I could get by with just that stone on every knife I own. I need something much finer for my straight razor and something much more coarse for when someone hands me an abused or neglected knife, also when I get knives that need to be thinned out. I do think it will be all I woul need for my personal carry knives, as I don't let them get too dull nor do I need a surgical grade edge. I think there will be alot more use for that little stone in the future.
 
A set of Arkansas stones will serve you well, as has been discussed. They have worked for a hundred years and will continue to do so. For occasional re-beveling or repairing a damaged blade, get a sheet of x-coarse wet/dry sandpaper for $1. For a super fine edge on your straight razor (if it's already sharp), get a sheet of super fine wet/dry sandpaper for $1. Dampen these and "stick" onto a piece of glass or even on one of your super flat diamond stones and strop away. $2 will get you 2 9"x11" surfaces to work with while you are deciding on stones. A longer surface (such as 3"x11") makes for more efficient, quicker sharpening than using pocket stones. This $2 setup will surprise you.
 
If by "system", you mean more than 1 stone then get a 6x2x1 coarse, medium, & fine Norton bench stone(s). Add to that a smooth steel to take to the woods (for your knife), & mill file (for your axe). That is MORE than adequate.
 
I would go with a Norton Med/Fine India, one in my garage, it feels and sounds good.

That's if I'm going natural. Jackknife just gave me an idea for another thread, I'll post the related thoughts there so as not to derail this one.
 
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