Trainer models

Zardoz

Zardoz

Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
253
Just a quick query from a Spydie newbie...

Why are there trainer models of the Delica and Endura? I can understand the requirement for a Gunting trainer, so that the tactical use can be practiced. Are the Delica and Endura self defense knives too or is there a need for a trainer that I have missed? With my limited Spydie knowledge it seems odd that there are trainers for these models but not for the Civillain and Matriach. Please enlighten?
 
I think that the MBC (Martial Blade Craft) courses run by Spyderco use the endura/delica, and that there are special courses covering the use of the gunting.

Not 100% on that though.
 
Thanks, I didn't realise the Endura and Delica were SD knives, I thought that they were utility type workers. Although I suppose any of the range could be used in that way at a push. People say the Civilian looks fearful but to me the Catcherman looks just as scary.
 
Well... The way I understand it, they <i>are</i> utility knives. But, to me anyway, there's no better sd knife. See, I like the idea of the Gunting, but I could never justify it to a cop. It just screams "I'm a weapon!". My Delica, on the other hand, is just a straightforward utility knife. It's not my fault that it "could" be used to utility open a badguy. ;)

Now, I know a lot of people out there have a "rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" attitude, and insist that we shouldn't care what other people think about our knives, but that's just not practical to me. Given that other people can force their opinions on us (police can confiscate, security can deny entry, alarmists can complain to whatever authority will listen), I'd rather carry an "almost as good" weapon that's totally deniable. And if you ever <i>do</i> have to defend yourself, using a "tool" as an "improvised weapon" could help fend off the prosecutor's smear tactics (y'know, the "looking for trouble" attitude).

So I, for one, think the trainers are a great idea. I find the Delica ideal for my defensive needs, and it's nice to see that Spyderco agrees :D

(Incidentally, I've also seen the trainers billed as display models... "Leave <i>this</i> one out on the counter so that customers don't hurt themselves with a real knife" :rolleyes: )
 
With my limited Spydie knowledge it seems odd that there are trainers for these models but not for the Civillain and Matriach.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a trainer for the Matriarch - it would allow us to safely practise some of the unique defensive techniques associated with hawksbill blades. In fact, all Spyderco would have to come up with is the unsharpened blade, since it could use the red Endura trainer handles.
 
I was at a cook-out last week-end, and witnessed yet another person who could not close a traditional lock back. (I also happened to be a Delica) Having a non-edged trainer is an excellent tool to train the uninitiated in safe knife handling.
It is my experience that when somebody not mechanically inclined cannot operate the closing of a knife, they usually thry and "force" it closed, just for a second. That is where the injury can occur. Possibly taking the initiatve as a knife knut to teach the person with a tool that is not going to slice their fingers gives them an opportunity to recognize the good qualities of a well made tool.
I know quite a few women who would love to learn how to do some basic tasks where they are afforded the time to figure things out with out getting hurt.
Spyderco and some other makers produce some great trainers to show a variety of knife lock mechanisms, in a variety of blade configurations.
 
Sorry you feel that way Grover,
Keep in mind what you plead is a 'utility tool' can and will be made out to be a deadly weapon 'regarless' what you are carrying and how average it looks to you. And if one is going to be accused of carrying a (deadly)weapon regardless, why shortcut yourself at the moment of a violent engagement? If it is within the legal parameters of your jurisdiction, it only makes logical sense to carry something that will excel, as opposed to be 'just enough' or 'almost as good', IMO.

To each their own I suppose, I personally want to know I'm armed to the best I can legally be as a responsiblity to myself. If I die in a confrontation, I'd rather it be a lack of skill level and not the fact that I shortcutted myself for 'others'.

Someday soon 'all' locking folders of any length/shape could be considered deadly weapons(in the US) and then what? We all carry slipjoints so as not to offend? I can't knowingly weaken my defensive profile to ease the minds of those who don't care about my welfare. Just makes no sense.

take care,
Ken
 
Grover,

did you ever read the edition of Tactical Knives about the guy who fended off the russian(?) hitman when he reached for his Delica? :P
 
The Delica and Endura have been the centerpiece of "Defensive Folding Knife" classes since they debuted. Erik Remmon developed the origional "Clipit Course" back in the late 80s and the world has never been the same. Until 11 Sep 2001, the Delica was about as universally legal a folding knife as you could get. You could carry it almost everywhere, fly with it, whatever. In Seattle, a Delica is legal where an Endura is not. Also, they used to be extremely reasonably priced, therefore easily replaced. I can think of three or four training programs off the top-of-my-head that are still being taught and promote the Delica as a primary defensive knife.

Spyderco claims that they will be doing Civillian & Matriarch trainers in the future.

FWIW, I carry a pair of Delicas on a daily basis and would'nt dream of replacing either of them with Gunting. [Maybe a Matriarch, though:)]
 
Ken,
I respectfully disagree ;)

For my purposes, and given my training (virtually nonexistent), I see little real difference between a Delica and a super giant black-coated zombie-killing automatic Balisong. Either way, chances are I'm gonnna end up grappling, slicing, and praying I don't get more sliced up than the other guy.

Actually, no, I take that back. Chances are I'm gonna end up travelling rapidly in the other direction, or handing over my wallet. So, see, <i>if</i> I'm confronted by a hostile person, and <i>if</i> I can't run, and <i>if</i> the guy isn't satisfied with my wallet, then that extra inch of blade length and the microsecond faster deployment might be a bit helpful. And if I got in knifefights every week or so, I might <i>want</i> something more combat oriented.

I'm a college student. I go to police stations, municipal buildings, and high schools pretty frequently in connection with my minor (on these occasions, I try to leave the knives in the car, but it means I have a reasonably close relationship with law enforcement and controlled environments). And look at where I live. In New Jersey. A few miles from NYC. Not the most weapon-friendly territory in the world. To me, having somebody spot the pocket clip and call me on it is a much higher risk than having to fend off a horde of ninjas :D

And as for a Delica being called a "deadly weapon" anyhow... I realize that if I ever have to defend myself, that anything from a Ladybug to a Busse Battle Mistress will be painted as a "deadly weapon". I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. With a Delica, if somebody asks about it, I can say "it's for opening boxes". He might believe me, he might not. But it's better than a Gunting (a fine, if expensive knife, but whaddamIgonnasay? "It's, ah, a window-breaker and seatbelt cutter!")

And hell, if I was <i>that</i> concerned with what everybody else found acceptable, then I wouldn't be carrying <i>anything</i>. I mean, there <i>is</i> a middle ground between "okay, whatever y'all say" and "screw you all, I'm doing whatever <i>I</i> want!"

Besides, the Delica's better at emergency costume alterations than any bigger knife :D
 
Prior to the invent of all these MBC-type spydercos there was Endura and Delica. You could find them for $25 and $35 at the shows. Everyone I knew that played martial arts carried one and they were possibly the first wide-spread tac folders out thre, other than the Buck 110.

To speculate that the Endura or delica are not SD capable....perhaps you are reading too much. I like the MBC knives for what they are, but they by no means overshadow the Delica or Endura as exceptionally capable knives that can more that carve up another human being in self defense. They are also great task knives and I carried one for 10 years prior to getting a Sebenza. The bigger heavier clumsier knives are nowhere as easy to carry and for over a decade these two veteran pros have made the rounds as defensive weapons. To suggest that they are less capable is amusing falacy. Simple works well: edge, point and handle. Pass cut stick. What else do you need? I need not to cut my partner during playtime. Spyderco figured this out just fine.
 
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