Training to fight wwith a knife...

Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
42
My 13 year old daughter would like to have formal training in street fighting with a knife. She is already a pretty good combat pistol and shotgun fighter, and I think this would be a good extension of her interests.

She is 4'10" and 90 pounds.

Any recommendations?
 
Any and every read and course you can find to acquaint both your daughter and yourself with judicious use of deadly force is an important first step. Getting killed in prison makes a person just as dead as getting killed in the street. Along with that, I'd recommend Marc MacYoung's "Surviving a Street Knife Fight" video from Paladin Press.
 
Yes, check out James Keating. Great guy, great to train with - and he is close to you. He does a lot of private session work these days and can tailor things just for individual students.
Also, check out his video's as well.

If possible, get your daughter (and yourself) surfing www.selfdefenseforums.com - its the best defense forum out there. (Prac tac aint bad, but its rife with a lot of B.S. sometimes too)
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
get her to join the track team!!!!! :p

Mayo, you're profound in your funny. Track, aka Reebok-Ryu Nike-jutsu, is also great when it comes to knives. In fact, it's the most effective art for such situations.

Slices,

Animal tells friends, family, and acquaintances that he's doing great. Don't take any statement on face value, though.
 
Thank you for the directions. Deanna is on the track and volleyball teams (voted MVP by her teammates)and is a 4.0 student, taking Advanced Placement courses.

Without fear of being told I'm prejudiced, she is also becoming a really beautiful young women. She is the youngest of my six Children, with also outstanding siblings. Her 4 Brothers are decorated combat veterans, who seem to thrive in the thick of battle. Her 21 year old Sister is a Senior in college, a Science Major (4.0), studying in England.

My purpose in encouraging her in these interests is to help her prepare herself for a world which is ever more barbaric. It's a little confusing to me, to have this beautiful little girl with such a bloodthirsty approach toward life, but I guess it's better than teaching her to yield to threats.

Anyway, thank you all for your help and ongoing suggestions.
 
My youngest daughter has been taking martial arts for years, from some VERY good instructors..........but she is thin and frankly, a girl...........I have NO martial art training and she has a hard time hurting me....of course I am twice her weight......I constantly encourage her to use the 100K anti-felon electric prod that is in our closet if there is ever an intruder (I have a hand held 300 ft lb projectile unit at my bedside!)

The problem is..........people on the right side of the fence do NOT understand the mindset of the hardened criminal. His only deterent is fear for his safety. So we are required to act accordingly!!:(
 
On Tuesday, my Daughter started classes at the American Schools of Shao-Lin Kempo. They will begin to teach Her knife fighting after She has achieved a Purple Belt - should be a couple of months. I tried unsucessfully to locate Jim Keating.

She's taking two, one hour group classes per week, plus a couple of hours of individual training per week. I was amazed at how quickly She is picking up the basic moves.

I'd appreciate any comments y'all have to make about this fighting style. I know nothing of formal Martial Arts. She has not yet learned how to run up walls and across ceilings, nor have they yet taught her how to dodge fired bullets. I guess all that will come with time.

Thank you all for your concern and guidance. I'll keep you advised of her progress.

I still am not sure that I want my beautiful Daughter to become an Amazon fighting machine!
 
Doug - Jim isnt hard to get in touch with. He gets a lot of emails (couple hundred a day I understand), but he does get back to you in good time usually.
Send an email to comtech@bmi.net (thats the email address for his company, combat technologies ) with a succinct subject line to relate right away why you are sending the email (always makes it easier to sort email by importance if people dont just go "Hey" in the subject line), and tell him the detals in your email, you have a daughter, this old, you want her to learn such and such, you are also in the Pac NW etc. and start talking with him about what she needs, and what the cost will be.

It will not be cheap. I have trained with Jim, at this years Riddle of Steel (Please see my review here: http://www.themartialist.com/1203/riddle03.htm ) and no, it wasnt cheap.
But, I have been doing this stuff for about four years, the heaviest in the past two years, thanks to good friends, and a lot of help from the online community - I made a good amount of progress on my own.
In four days with Jim Keating and the two months afterward spent playing with the things I learned from him, I have made a step forward equal only to the distance progressed int he past two years.
I would spend three times as much for training with Jim. It is worth it beyond words.

Get in touch with him, and make this thing happen - for your daughter.

I dont know anything about the school she is in now, but I am always wary of martial arts school professing to teach knife skills, or knife defenses - because all too often what they teach requires the attacker to do a set number of things, or just to stand there while they are dis-armed or defeated. There is no realism to the training, it is as formalized and dance like as a kata form all too often.
Watch for this... if you see that type of stuff happening, get her into a different school.
Knife defenses, knife work, should be filled with dynamic movement from both sides, the off hand and weapon hands of the attacker and defender need to be working at all times, feet need to be moving, etc etc.
If its "Jake, walk up to Julie and stab her like this *overhand stiff arm stab* then just stand there so she can disarm you" - get her out of that school so fast it makes her head spin. That doesnt teach anyone anything, except how to get hurt.
Unfortunate fact about all too many traditional martial arts schools.
If you have any concerns about this type of thing, drop by the Practical Tactical forum here on Blade Forums and voice your concerns to get some feed-back. Or drop by www.selfdefenseforums.com - thats the best bunch of guys on the net for this stuff, IMO - a lot of experiance with a lot of different types of instruction alla round the world, if you have a concern about something in her training (or yours), drop by and speak up. We'll be more than glad to help you out.

Spend a little extra money and pick up some of James Keatings video tapes, so she can train at home, and you can train with her (nothing builds a good father/daughter relationship like some bruises from training knives :d ;)). Jim does a really good tape, I like the ones I have seen a lot.
The tapes I'd reccomend to start with are the Reverse Grip Knife Fighting/DrawPoint series - of the ones i have seen, that'd be the best to start with.

I thinky ou are doing right helping to make sure your daughter gets this kind of training.
Learning to use a knife, a gun, isnt blood-thirsty, or it doesnt have to be to be realistic or valuable. Like learning to change a tire, or build a camp-fire, its a survival skill, and the knife or gun is just a tool, like the car-jack.
Its not about death, or violence for the sake of violence, it is about preserving life. Thats what you are equipping your daughter to do, preserve her life.
"The knife that takes life is the knife that gives life" Jim Keating.

Congratulations on being a wise enough and kind enough parent to do this for your child, you deserve an award.
 
Thank you. I'll follow your suggestions carefully, for my intent in training her for self defense... is NOT to teach her a new GAME.

As I have taught her combat shooting, it is a skill to save lives - no game AT ALL.

I'll keep the board posted on her progress.

Thanks, again.
 
www.fighting.net

West Coast? Paul Vunak. I have trained with him, and some of his top instructors, and if I had a brother going to prison or a daughter going to college---they would stay with him for a week. He is in California. See the url above to contact him.

In the Midwest, my good friend Jack McVicker. www.jackmcvicker.com(812) 460-0958.

Doug I urge you to also find someone (Vunak does, McVicker is a World Champion) to teach her ground fighting skills...ground fighting with a knife, w/o knife, etc. Facts are pretty simple---most fights go to the ground. If, God forbid, she is tackled then so much "standup" fighting goes down the crapper. Some folks wiser than me say that if you don't know how to fight on the ground, you don't know how to fight.

Congrats on raising such a fabulous family of children! You deserve a medal for doing what so many parents don't. I have two small daughters, one that already trains with Jack, and I hope that I can be as successful as you with children---when I look back on this in 5, 10, 15 years.

Best,

Bruce A.
 
most fights with un-trained fighters go to ground.
A trained fighter who lets the fight go to ground has fcked up somewhere, IMO.
Now, most brawls between a couple folks who know about jack but want to have a fight, the kind of stuff you see on Cops between the civilians before the cop breaks it up - yeah those go to ground because the guys are putz's and often drunk, standing up is haard then. :p

But yes, I will agree, there is a need to know enough ground work to survive if you get taken to the ground.
Even I have been pursuing that recently because it was a large hole in my training.

JAK knows a lot about various fighting methods, he isnt just a blade guy, I dont mean to beat this dead horse again as I've already said my bit about Keating but if you do end up talking to him about that, talk to him about a comprehensive training curriculum, little more rounded out.
Easier if you can keep it all with one trainer.
 
Thank you all, again for your courtesy and advice. I will pursue the directions you have given, as Deanna continues with her present training.

I'll do this with all possible haste, and continue to update the forum.

Thanks, again.
 
Doug, I agree with everything Morgan told you.

If you prefer local dojos, get her into judo or boxing for some full contact experience when she's young. Some Filipino martial arts could be good as well. For FMA based knife training, I can personally recommend Mike Janich's/Spyderco's Martial Blade Craft series.

The "Model Mugging" courses offered by BAMM, IMPACT, etc. if in your area could be good, but they may also be rigid adherants to a "Bulletman" formula conforming to what is safe on that particular suit.

MacYoung's website is great, and I also highly recommend SDF.

Wherever you send her, make sure the instructor is reality oriented and not too macho, etc.

The Melissa Soalt, aka "Dr. Ruthless" tapes ("Fierce and Female") are a good idea to purchase, too, as is the long out of print book "Her Wits About Her: Self-Defense Success Stories by Women," edited by Caignon and Groves. Maybe you can find that one at Amazon. I highly recommend it as "must-have reading material" for a young woman.

Finally, you may want to contact Lee Aldridge of Reality Based Fighting Concepts in Albuquerque, NM and see if he might ever be in your area. Perhaps you could hook up with him some time. I trained with him recently and he is very, very good at full contact type reality training with various suits. Here is his website: http://www.fightingconcepts.com/pages/850982/index.htm

Good luck,

Karl
 
I just want to echo what straightblastpfs said. I've trained with folks who are certified under Paul Vunak: talk about a reality check!! I totally changed after embracing Jeet Kune Do. All of the stuff Paul or his associates teach has been field tested. I know that the way my instructor taught me to elbow and head butt works because he and his instructors and their instructors have used this stuff in the street! If you get a chance to go to a seminar go for it. Or, shoot Paul Vunak an e-mail and find out if there is a certified instructor nearby.
 
Crayola,

I like JKD myself. I like to fight in a circle, always moving opposite the idiot's dominant hand and using 'found objects' during the altercation. In other words, I cheat. Ash trays, chairs, hot pots of coffee, whatever, make great throwing items.

Having slender wrists, I always used elbows. I must admit that in anger I threw haymakers. But my whole life got better when I quit being an angry young man. It allowed me to use 'condition yellow' and win the fight, or the flight, before it even began.

edit: I always like to report this. I never saw a knife fight.
 
Doug- you can give Greg Beeman a call-he's a CSSD/SC instructor in Spokane, out of the Sharp Shooting Range. His Email is grbeeman@sharpshooting.net. Hell of a guy, and one of Keating's certified instructors, as well as Bram Frank's. Tell him I sent you--Joe
 
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