travel with children.

firkin

firkin

Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
2,737
This should maybe be in the existing airline security thread, but I think if someone who would have missed it there, finds this and is saved the agravation, it's worth a new thread.

Pierre mentioned:

"Bring a government-issued photo ID. (If you have photo identification for your children, please bring those as well.)"

I suggest you GET IDs for children, and keep them updated at least if there's any chance you fly to Canada from the US.

My US-born, US-citizen friends and their two US-born children ages two to four, are on a short holiday in Canada. They are traveling by air.

1) Upon departure, it proved a lengthy exercise to be allowed to depart for Canada without visas. The airport personel were able to verify that it was still allowed, but were initially unable to clear it through the computer system, or determine how to do so. No direct flights from here to Canada, but I can't imagine it had not occured before.

2) Shortly after I post this, I am going to send fascimiles of the children's birth certificates to the parents and their children who are now in Canada. They hope that after some anticipated difficulty this will enable the family to return to their home via the flight they have booked. They will be quite inconvienced if the geniune physical documents have to be sent.

Fortunately, we are good friends and have exchanged housekeys and I am able to access these records for them. It's lucky they weren't stored elswhere, like a safety deposit box.

A piece of paper so valuable you can't risk it's destruction. Yet without that piece of paper your actions are severely curtailed, so it must be accessable, hence at risk.....


I don't know what it's like returning from Canada by car.

We may not have a national ID issued at birth in this country, you just need a proxy for one more and more of the time.
 
We have had exchange students stay with us in Seattle for the last two years. In early 2001, we went to BC with exchange student from Germany (who had her passport). We had N0 documents other than driver's licenses, and were travelling with our 1 year old son, and had no problems travelling either way.

In November 2001, we went back with an exchange student from the Phillipines. It was a totally different experience. We were asked for proof of US citizenship (luckily we had our voter's registration cards). We had thought to bring a birth certificate for our son as well. when we asked about the change in regulations, the young officer pompously responded that "this has always been the law". I replied "Really. Well, no one asked me for a passport of proof of citizenship when I crossed the border here a few months ago". He turned several shades of red and replied that There may have been some changes in enforcement policy recently, and that we could expect a "much more difficult time from US Immigration".

I was so pissed off that I darn near told him that we don't tolerate that sort of tomfoolery from our civil servants (though of course, we do). I was quite surprised when we took a ferry back to the US to see that the usually bored US customs folks looked positively keyed up, and checked everyone over very thoroughly.

An interesting side note is that we had not known that people from the Phillipines need a special visa to enter Canada (the Germans didn't), and were told that they must be gotten at least two weeks in advance at the consulate (at a cost of $50 US, or thereabouts). :( But apparently the border agents have the ability to grant "discresionary" visas in certain cases, for a mere $125 US, so we were able to continue our trip, poorer but wiser. Apparently Phillipinos are only $125 more dangerous than us Yanks :)

Pat
 
In 1965, my mom and dad came through Minneapolis to pick up AC and his brother for their grand tour through Canada. They had a new motorhome, rigged out with portable generator, CB and the works. Dad carried a .357, a 12 ga., and a .30-30. At the border at International Falls, he was allowed to ship the .357 back to me - contraband. When he showed his itinerary and maps, he was allowed to take the long guns, as many of their stops were in wilderness country (the actions were sealed with a wire and lead seal,and the RCMP would expect an accounting of a broken seal). They followed a route from western Ontario, through Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and re-entered the states below Lethbridge, Alberta. Enroute, they stopped at a highway construction camp, to get a generator mount welded. The camp welder had been taken to the hospital, but they let dad use their equipment, which he said was top-rate. When the superintendent saw his work,he asked if dad would mind terribly looking at a couple of things that they needed badly, but couldn't fix without a welder. Dad spent two days there, catching up their welding repairs. They were amazed that he would take two precious vacation days to tend to their chores (he was retired, and the kids were on summer vacation). The rest of the trip was red carpet. The highway camp passed the word, and they were checked on by the RCMP, and others from different road camps, at almost every stop. They were offered runs to town for groceries, side trips to the best fishing streams..red carpet...and dad was ASKED if the seals were still on his guns (just asked, not inspected). The U.S. side had been clued in, too - No inspection, but they checked his plates, and the one who came into the motorhome asked him (with a grin) if he always took odd jobs while he was on vacation.
Them days is gone forever :(
 
Couldn't delete the whole thing without deleting the subsequent posts but...


/ZAP/ :D

Rusty
 
I didn't exist back in those days but I think both countries had a lot more in common back then. Now, well... just watch the news.
 
Tried to edit and got a dupe...tried to delete, and didn't have "permission". Spark would blame it on X@%$** WebTV. Maybe I would, too.
 
Yvsa,

The problem originated from the fact they were with the kids:.
Any adult can (or at least recently could) travel to Canada with just a driver's license.

However in order for children to leave the country, they must be on one of the parent's passport.In this case, it looks like since both parents were present, while the passports were not available, the gate agent(airlines employee) made the wrong call trying to be nice. Due to illegal children adoption and othe issues ( divorced parents taking children back to their country of origine) INS is very strict on admission regulations. This is definitely an immigration issue, not a security issue. I would suggest fro them to contact the US consulate in Torronto. Here are some info from the State department:

Passports for children (persons 15 or younger)

Who applies for the passport? A parent or guardian.

What documents and other papers are required? Proof of the child’s citizenship, 2 passport photographs, a DSP-11 form completed by the parent, and proof of the parent’s identity.

How much does it cost and for how long is this passport good? The total fee is $40.00 and the child’s passport will be valid for 5 years.

Do the children have to apply in person? Children 12 years old and younger are not required to appear in person at a Passport Acceptance Agency or Passport Office. All others must apply in person and may be required to have a parent or guardian with them.

Can I renew a child’s passport? No. If the individual is still not 16 years old when the passport expires, then the same process has to be followed as explained above.

Additional Fees

An additional adjudication fee of $100 will be charged to previously undocumented passport customers who were born outside the United States and who have not been issued any of the following documents: a U.S. passport, a consular Report of Birth Abroad, a Certification of Report of Birth, a Certificate of Naturalization or a Certificate of Citizenship.

An additional fee $15 will be charged when, upon request, the Department of State verifies issuance of a previous U.S. passport or consular Report of Birth Abroad because the customer is unable to submit evidence of U.S. citizenship.

No fee is charged to applicants with U.S. Government or military authorization for no-fee passports (except designated acceptance facilities may collect an execution fee of $15

Also for everyone's clarification, the quote in your message is not from me but directly from TSA.

Hope this helps and that they get back safely!
 
Pierre:

Thank you for another lucid and detailed explanation.

If I understand you correctly, a child under 16 (over 16 a driver's license/state ID will work for Canada) cannot LEAVE the country unless they have been issued their own visa, or appear on one of the parents.

If you've the time, I would greatly appreciate it if you could clarify a couple of things.

1) Sounds like the actual (not a copy) birth certificate does not substitute for the passport. (even if so, I myself would be reluctant to put a "primary" document used to obtain passports at risk--I expect obtaining a replacement birth certificate has become, and will continue to become more difficult)

2) Is travel to Mexico any different than what you've described?

3) Would a parent with children included on their passport encounter any difficulties if they were to use it to travel without the children?

4) If the child under 16 has it's own passport, can a relative (on mother's side relative's last name won't match) accompany the child, or must it be the parent/legal guardian?

Sorry for so many questions, and I really appreciate the information you've already provided.
And I apologize for the sloppy writing that appeared to attribute the quote to you.
 
Back and forth to Mexico used to be done with nothing more than a driver's license but after 9/11 I'm not sure anymore.
 
Firkin: No need to apologize, we are all friends here.
I am goging to try nto help answer your questions but I would checking the US state dept. website or your local passeport office for more updated info.

1) Sounds like the actual (not a copy) birth certificate does not substitute for the passport. (even if so, I myself would be reluctant to put a "primary" document used to obtain passports at risk--I expect obtaining a replacement birth certificate has become, and will continue to become more difficult)
Click to expand...

I always advise my clients when they travel to have two copies of their documents as well as 4 passeport-size photos. one set stay home/with the secretary/ with a p.o.c and the other is with the traveler. If you lose yuor passeport, it willnot take as much time to replace since the consulate will have all documents with all files numbers on it.

Each set consists of :
- photocopy of the passeport ( ID Pages + any page having a visa relating to the trip)
-If children, copy of their birth certificate
- copy of all presprition medication taken on the trip
- copy of prescription eyeglasses ( it cost a fortune in other places to have a replacement pair made and it takes more than one hour)\
- 4 passeport -size photos ( some countries requesting 2 photos when entering , you'll still have 2 left to use if you lose your passeport)

2) Is travel to Mexico any different than what you've described?
Click to expand...

Not sure , I have not been to Mexico in a while but you can check it with State

3) Would a parent with children included on their passport encounter any difficulties if they were to use it to travel without the children?

No, it is accepted practice to put the children on one of the parents passport and that does not have any effect on your ability to travel.

4) If the child under 16 has it's own passport, can a relative (on mother's side relative's last name won't match) accompany the child, or must it be the parent/legal guardian?
Click to expand...

I don't think this would work unless the adult is a legal guardian, Again I would check with State or your passeport office.

The state department website is a goldmine of info except for travelling advisories that reflect our political position rather than the true reality of risk in a given country. This is why I am makinbg a nice living as an International Security Consultant...;) ;) ;) . Thanks to political correctness and vote chasing, the administration rarely issue a warning on time or accuratelly report on a situation.

I hope this help, Let me know if you have any other questions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top