Traveling across Canada

[motorwolf]

Hello there,

I wanna start by saying I'm new here and just looking for a little advise.

I'm riding my motorcycle from NY to Oregon crossing through Canada... The trip starts in NY, and I'll cross NJ, PA and OH before heading back North into Ontario (Niagara entry point). From there on I'll head west towards Vancouver, BC and will re-enter the United States in two points, North Dakota to visit a friend and Montana to ride the Glassier Nat. Park, finally will enter the US again through Washington State and hit Oregon as my final destination.

I do all my rides about 50% camping / 50% motels and in other trips (non-border crossing) I've packed with me a couple small utility knifes (Swiss Army and Leatherman multitools) along with all my other camping tools inside my bike luggage. I recently bought a larger Ontario SP1 because I felt in the past I needed a larger blade while camping, and also bought a smaller Smith & Wesson SWAT folding knife.

My concern is now that I'm crossing a border, if it is ok for me to have ANY of these tools in my bag. I usually don't carry them ON me since I literally just use them for my camping needs or for bike repairs...

I really want to count with my tools during my travels, but rather be smart and avoid any inconveniences with the law at the border or while riding in any of these US States or Canadian Provinces... so I'm seeking for any advise, comments or suggestions.

Thank you,

 

[Grey Falcon]

The multi tools should give you no problems, the Ontario SP1 might give you a second glance because it looks a little tactical but as long as you can give a good explanation as to why you have it there shouldn't be an issue and that is if you get checked. But I mean, I've bought knives across the border and brought them back with no issues.

The only area where Canadian knife laws get real tricky is with folders as those are hard to get across the border and not generally liked by Canadian customs and the border guards as they are frequently seized. Though that's when purchasing them overseas and having them brought in, oddly enough not the biggest problem when buying them within Canada. Again, this is all based on if you get checked. They really just don't like assisted openers and things like that which are technically illegal in Ontario. I mean technically the benchmade axis lock is a gray area because of the way it opens, but I've seen lots of people carry benchmade's in the city, grey area lies as if it can open by gravity. So this is the only one I would be concerned with.

Again, in Canada generally if you get stopped you just need to provide a reason as to why you are carrying what you are carrying. If you plan on camping and are on a trip then you are justifying what you have on you so it should be fine. Just don't say it's for self defense of protection because then the intent is to cause harm, right? Intent is the biggest thing here if you get stopped, and it also really depends on the person stopping you if they do. I live in Toronto and I've EDC'd a small fixed blade and folders with no issues.

I hope some of that helps. Knife laws in Ontario are pretty much a grey area in general, it's mostly intent and justification of carrying what you are carrying.

 

[Danke42]

They look OK. When you cross the border if they ask about weapons tell them you have them (going both ways).

If they don't then ask don't volunteer. If they do ask though they will pull you aside and check all your gear for undeclared weapons.

 

[stabman]

They really just don't like assisted openers and things like that which are technically illegal in Ontario. I mean technically the benchmade axis lock is a gray area because of the way it opens,

Neither assisted opening nor the AXIS lock are gray areas at all in Canada; they are both perfectly legal.
The folks at the border sometimes gets confused about the assisted openers though.

Pulling back the AXIS lock to open the knife isn't really the intended design anyway; it's just something some owners like to do.
None of my AXIS knives would flick open by pulling back the bar anyway, as I keep the pivot tight enough to keep them from able to be flicked.

Knives that flick open (wrist, not thumb) are the main thing to avoid, especially crossing the border.

 

[Grey Falcon]

My bad I said assisted when I meant automatic. As far as I know from reading about it the big no's are:

1) automatic opening mechanisms
2) knives that can be opened with one hand (excluding thumbposts and such)
3) butterfly-style knives
4) push-knives are considered to be a form of brass knuckle

That and if you are carrying a pocket knife it can't be in your pocket, but rather clipped to it (as in the clip must be visible) as otherwise it is considered a concealed weapon. From what I've read about knife law in Ontario specifically these were the big points I remember.

 

[stabman]

That and if you are carrying a pocket knife it can't be in your pocket, but rather clipped to it (as in the clip must be visible) as otherwise it is considered a concealed weapon. From what I've read about knife law in Ontario specifically these were the big points I remember.

Except in Calgary.
There they give you a fine for if the knife can be seen.

They can do that because there's no law against concealed carry of tools...but in general, having it visible (everywhere other than Calgary) is seen as a great way of showing lawful intent.

Like you said before, it largely comes down to intent.

Except for the prohibited ones of automatics, balisongs, push daggers, brass knuckle knives (D-guard is generally okay, though), and objects that look like something else but have a concealed blade, if the item is less than 30 cm (12 inches) in length (knife pens, hairbrush knives, lipstick knives, etc.).

Sword canes are fine to own, but carrying them around would be considered a big no-no.

And, of course, knives that can be flicked.

 

[straightwalls]

Having a knife in your pocket is absolutely not considered a concealed weapon, knives are tools and as long as the knife is otherwise legal to own it is not a weapon unless you state that is your intent for carrying it or use it as such. It is all about intent, just simply say if asked that it is a cutting tool, nothing more. Make sure the pivots are snug so flicking is not possible and you should be fine unless you run into a real ignorant authority figure which is always a possibility anywhere.

 

[stabman]

Having a knife in your pocket is absolutely not considered a concealed weapon, knives are tools and as long as the knife is otherwise legal to own it is not a weapon unless you state that is your intent for carrying it or use it as such.

True enough, but I have met some cops who were of the thought that if it was concealed, it might show intent (except for knives without clips, naturally).
It wouldn't go anywhere in court, but might involve some explaining to the cop.

On the other hand, if they don't see a knife at all, they're not likely to ask about it...

 

[gadgetgeek]

What those guys said, traveling and camping by bike is a reasonable and lawful reason to carry those knives. Even if its a bylaw cop, as long as you aren't wearing something that might be mistaken for colors, and you are just passing through, it wouldn't likely go anywhere. Attitude is everything, as I'm sure you know.

 

[kingofdiamonds]

If Canada's border patrol can open any folder using inertia / centrifugal force (how much and what level of technique is never specified) - if someone can flick it open - they will confiscate it. The hypocrisy of this is that you can buy hundreds of knives from reputable stores in Canada that can be opened like this... Not worth the risk. Lose the folder and just bring a fixed blade. Leatherman and SAK are ok - they are on the belts of Canadians everywhere and are far too tight to be opened by wrist flicking.
If you have camping gear with your knives - no problem. You are going camping.
Do you have any weapons with / on you? The answer is NO - you have tools with you. You are going camping. That's it. If the officer asks specifically about knives answer honestly. This indicates that you do not even consider your knives to be weapons. You need them for camping, food prep / cooking, etc.

Lastly - leave everything off your person and packed on your scooter before getting to the border station. Bury your stuff in your camping bag - if they want to search it - no problem. This is to show that your blade is not easily accessible from your driving (riding) position.
1: it shows intent (that you are carrying tools you always carry when you go camping and not ready for a quick draw.)
and
2: If you have to go inside the office for an "extended interview" - there are signs that have a picture of a knife and a gun with a line through them - and the last thing you want at this point is to fumble around removing stuff from your person and officers see you with a blade in your hand...

Intent is a big one in Canada. You are just some dude wanting to take in the sights and do some camping - I don't know of any Canadians that go camping without a knife - you will be fine.

 

[CambodianCowboy]

kingofdiamonds pretty much have the right of it. They'll most likely ask you about guns, alcohol and tobacco. If they ask you about knives then tell them the truth. Yes you got knives as part of your camping gear. They shouldn't give you any trouble but there's stupid and arrogant border guards just as there's stupid and arrogant people everywhere. Honestly though I doubt you'll have any issue unless you are an obvious mobile knife store.

 

[motorwolf]

Thank you all so much for the comments and advise... this is very helpful.
I definitely will be honest if asked.

 

[Danke42]

They will ask to the effect of "do you have any knives or other weapons"; they work off a script though so they may not. They may ask about fruit or sausages. They will ask where you're from and where you're going so have a destination ready.

When crossing any international border the folks guarding it have much more power than a typical beat cop. I like crossing at the smaller less busy spots. The guards are less harried and less prone to the good cop/bad cop method of finding out what you're doing.

 

[welsh]

A couple of important points:

That and if you are carrying a pocket knife it can't be in your pocket, but rather clipped to it (as in the clip must be visible) as otherwise it is considered a concealed weapon.

Having a knife in your pocket is absolutely not considered a concealed weapon, knives are tools and as long as the knife is otherwise legal to own it is not a weapon unless you state that is your intent for carrying it or use it as such. It is all about intent....

Both statements are incorrect. The courts have struggled to define the offence of carrying a concealed weapon, because the government has continually tampered with the definition of "weapon" in the Criminal Code, removing and then reinstating the objective question of whether a thing is designed to be a weapon. Beyond the question of intent, the law also considers the design of the item in question, which can make it a weapon regardless of your stated intent. The leading case law is now R. v. D.A.C., a knife case which introduced a two-part test to establish whether a thing is a concealed weapon, regardless of your intent:
1. does the design of the thing make it readily usable as a weapon?
2. would a reasonable person have cause to fear for his safety if he knew such a thing was being concealed?

Many knives would be considered weapons on the basis of the first question: all fixed blades and one-hand openers are readily usable as weapons. A slipjoint, on the other hand, is not.

This does not, however, make those things "concealed weapons," because of the second part of the test. A reasonable person would not be alarmed by anyone carrying a knife while camping, for example. They very well might, however, if they knew you were carrying a dagger strapped to your wrist under your jacket on a city bus. But they probably wouldn't if that dagger was in a box at the bottom of your backpack, on that bus. So this test effectively takes into account the nature of the knife, the way it is carried, and the context you carry it in. You can say your knife is a tool until you're blue in the face, and it makes no difference to this test.

The law could be summarized briefly as, "Don't act like a dangerous idiot."

In short, knives carried with your camping gear should not raise any eyebrows. Knives in pockets won't, either, as long as you're in a context where you might reasonably need a knife as a tool.

From what I've read about knife law in Ontario....

For the benefit of visitors to Canada, there is no such thing as "knife law in Ontario," or in any other province. The division of powers in Canada's constitution makes criminal law a federal responsibility. The law is the same across the country.

Calgary has municipal by-laws affecting knives, and other cities may also, but these are municipal by-laws enacted to regulate public nuisances. All they can do is fine you and take your knife away; they cannot impose criminal penalties.

 

[stargawker]

While the knives you mentioned in your original post are legal in Canada, I might recommend a less tactical-looking knife than the Ontario SP1. Something that looks more like a camp knife rather than a self defense knife.

Less likely to have issues with an overzealous law enforcement officer of nervous neighboring campers.