Treating Walnut Problems

P

PeterB

Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
158
I've been a stockmaker for rifles/shotguns for years and a dealer in gunstock wood. I have a large amount of stocks and blanks that either had flaws or "blew" during the drying process but had smaller areas that turned out great for pistol grips which I make and knife handles. (I am a "handler" not a knife maker). I know many finishing techniques but prefer to "plasticize".

The problem is walnut. Some treaters tell me it cannot be treated. That is, of course, untrue. The problem is the color change to really ugly colors when treated (not dyed, just treated). I think this is the reason why treating outfits do not want to treat it. Now sometimes the color is unchanged and all is good with the world. But often (and unfortuneately, usually), the color changes from the normal Claro or English or Bastogne walnut colors to gray or nearly black colors. It is sad when a gorgeous matched feather set of scales turns ugly.

Now it might be that since polymers are expensive they are reused. They get darker and darker and this may be the problem that turns walnut ugly. Perhaps something in the walnut is also a driver of the problem.

Anyone have any ideas? I may be stuck with using no treating process, just an oil finish like the turn of the century mil spec immersion process used by the military for gunstocks.
 
Have you ever tried having it stabilized by a company such as k&g or wssi? Stabilized Claro walnut looks beautiful and makes a good handle.

Here's an example from the web

1-26.jpg
 
PeterB said:
walnut colors to gray or nearly black colors.
Click to expand...

Hey Peter, I work at a lumber store and what i have learned is that this is due to processes of the lumber. When walnut is steamed "as most commercial walnut is" it takes on the darker greys, blacks and purples. However, pieces that are kiln or air dried have much more of the rust reds and deep browns we associate with beautiful walnut. Thats why the slabs you often see for sale look so different than the boards. Most of the slabs came out of some ones tree and was sent off for kiln baking or air dried over the years and kept its rust red deep brown color, unlike the bought walnut lumber which was steamed to help make the sapwood and heartwood more similar.
 
In the past I've had a couple stabilizers refuse to do Black Walnut.. But have had K&G do a batch a couple years ago with no problems at all. Very good stuff!
 
I've also had K&G stabilize walnut and it came back beautiful. Can't say it will work every time but I've had no problems. I've always had great results from K&G on every species of wood I've sent them.
 
K&G does a good job stabilizing Walnut. Not all stabilizing is the same as a lot of people here have discovered, so I stick with K&G for all my stabilizing.

Different Walnut types will react differently. Claro Walnut like in the photo does not have a big weight gain but it definitely benefits from the stabilizing. Bastogne and English Walnut have a bit more weight gain.

Be sure to trim away any cracked or checked areas because they can spread. Make sure the walnut is dry all the way through or it can tear itself apart inside. Ideal moisture content is under 10%.

I would also suggest cutting scales after the block has been stabilized because the wood can move during the curing process.
Some people think stabilizing will fix existing problems but that is not usually true. It is best to send in unflawed wood for stabilizing.
 
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Mark, you're certainly my "go to" person for info on wood and stabilizing. Now, you mentioned " Claro Walnut like in the photo does not have a big weight gain", then go on to say it should be cut into slabs after stabilizing. If there is not much weight gain, is there much resin (for want of a better word) soak into center of block with walnut? If there is resin soaked all the way to center, why does Claro not gain weight?

Thank you for any info you can impart to this.

Ken H>
 
I've been sending walnut to K&G for years. Brad does a super good job. Call him he will be more than happy to answer any questions.


Bing
 
Ken H> said:
Mark, you're certainly my "go to" person for info on wood and stabilizing. Now, you mentioned " Claro Walnut like in the photo does not have a big weight gain", then go on to say it should be cut into slabs after stabilizing. If there is not much weight gain, is there much resin (for want of a better word) soak into center of block with walnut? If there is resin soaked all the way to center, why does Claro not gain weight?
Thank you for any info you can impart to this.
Ken H>
Click to expand...

This is just my theory based on what I have seen.

Some woods like maple, ash and birch hold the resin in between the grain and in the pores resulting in a more significant weight gain.
Other oilier woods will expel resin that is not soaked into the fiber of the wood resulting in a lesser weight gain.
Both have been completely penetrated with the stabilizing solution and properly stabilized.
The difference in weight gain being the amount of cured resin remaining in between the wood fibers.
I hope this makes sense. It helps to think of wood not as a solid but as a bundle of fibers.
 
I only air dry as gunstocks go to hell if forced dried. I am in Central Oregon which is a high desert and my woods average about 7% when tested (different meters read up to about 2% off from each other).

I sent both Claro and English to be treated and I did, indeed, have the wood treated by K&G. This was the first time I have ever had a problem with anything I sent them and I recommend them highly. However, I had 15 sets of matching feathers ruined and that is $1500. worth of 1911 grips when finished. I'd like to discover where the problem is so it doesn't happen again. Right now, I just have theories and maybe not the right ones.

Any more thoughts?
 
One Stabilizer a few years ago told me he would Not do Claro at all. But he would do American Black Walnut. Said he had a lot of failures with Claro.
 
Here is a guess on my part PeterB.
May have been pieces cut from a tree with a higher oil content than normal.
I have had times that I sent in a batch of Claro that was cut from a few different trees.
The figure and color were different enough that I could remember which blocks came from which tree.
They were all stabilized at the same time in the same batch.
The blocks from 2 of the trees looked great and from one tree not so great.
That told me it was not the process or the chemicals. At least in that situation.
Same thing has happened to me with Redwood.

Bummer about the loss of the pistol grip scales. Took that comment to make me remember who you are.
Sorry if I sounded like I was answering someone without as much experience.
 
Mark, not to worry. I am very greatful for the sharing of your thoughts and experiences. My guess is thatv there is something unknown going on. The pieces I sent were from at least three diffeent trees as they were diffeent types of walnut. The claro photos shown above are magnificent and they were treated. I saw one fellow's ( a treater himself) and they were magnificent. I was going to give him some and then I saw another set from him which showed the same problem I had experienced. He did give me a suggestion as to what the problem might be.

Polymers are expensive. Luckily, they are reusable. However, the more you reuse them, the darker they become. It was suggested to me that the polymers used to treat my walnut may have been reused too many times to be successful in treating walnut. Now I have not seen this problem with most of the woods I have had treated (34 types so far), but I have seen it in koa. I prefer the lighter koa but can live with the darker stuff. But the walnut can turn an ugly very dark gray (with splotches).

Now I have made many a custom rifle in my time and have written many articles on finishing. However, plasticizing just has SO many advantages, I hate to give up on it. Moreover, I would even like to know who might be able to treat a gunstock sized piece.

In any event, I am still greatly appreciative of any thoughts anyone might like to proffer.
 
PeterB said:
Mark, not to worry. I am very greatful for the sharing of your thoughts and experiences. My guess is thatv there is something unknown going on. The pieces I sent were from at least three diffeent trees as they were diffeent types of walnut. The claro photos shown above are magnificent and they were treated. I saw one fellow's ( a treater himself) and they were magnificent. I was going to give him some and then I saw another set from him which showed the same problem I had experienced. He did give me a suggestion as to what the problem might be.

Polymers are expensive. Luckily, they are reusable. However, the more you reuse them, the darker they become. It was suggested to me that the polymers used to treat my walnut may have been reused too many times to be successful in treating walnut. Now I have not seen this problem with most of the woods I have had treated (34 types so far), but I have seen it in koa. I prefer the lighter koa but can live with the darker stuff. But the walnut can turn an ugly very dark gray (with splotches).

Now I have made many a custom rifle in my time and have written many articles on finishing. However, plasticizing just has SO many advantages, I hate to give up on it. Moreover, I would even like to know who might be able to treat a gunstock sized piece.

In any event, I am still greatly appreciative of any thoughts anyone might like to proffer.
Click to expand...
I have 3 walnut stocks in a 10" × 36"chamber, submerged in 5 gallons of resin. Hoping they don't darken up and get ulgy! I have a chamber large enough to stabilize gun stocks. We'll see how these walnut burl stock's turn out! PeterB do you make custom lever rifles?
 
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Welcome Dex. This thread id eight years old. Look at the posting dates of threads you find as a new member. Necroposting rarely gets an answer. The last time Peter B posted was 2016. If you have a specific question for the folks here start a new thread and link the old one.

Also, fill out your profile so people know where you live and a few things about you.

Again, welcome to Shop Talk.
I think folks would be interested in your stabilizing setup, sound pretty big. A thread on that would be good.
 
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