Tri-Ad Rip-Off?

T

The Whip

Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
1,026
Anybody care to explain to me how this isn't a violation of international patent law? The pictures are of a Pure Back Lock, the purported "new" design of an Italian knife company (and forthcoming business affiliate of Chris Reeve Knives) called Nilte.

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More information about the lock can be found here on Nilte's Web site:

http://www.nilte.com/en/sport-utility-tool/pure-back-lock.html


Sure looks to me like blatent theft of the primary design features of the Tri-Ad lock.

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The Nilte site says of the Pure Back Lock's creation, "New mechanics were discovered." Yeah, they were "discovered" on Cold Steel knives!


-Steve

P.S. - Sorry for the photo failure. I hate Photo Bucket!
 
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newdebate said:
Pics don't show.
Click to expand...

You're not the only one. I can't see them either. Where each photo should be, there's simply a rectangular banner that says "please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting" courtesy of Photobucket

Edit: The Snapfish links worked for me. :thumbsup:
 
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If it's licensed under a CS patent, it would be required by CS to carry the CS patent markings.
 
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Looks fine to me. The tri-ad has a secondary spring providing tension, whereas the pure back lock is a single piece.

Same purpose, but achieved through different means.

Thanks for posting. I'd been too lazy to look it up and see what it's all about.

Also, photobucket won't work anymore unless you pay their ridiculous fee. You'll have to find a new photo host.

Photos for reference:

Tri-ad.jpg

3PBL4-72.jpg
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
Looks fine to me. The tri-ad has a secondary spring providing tension, whereas the pure back lock is a single piece.

Same purpose, but achieved through different means.

Thanks for posting. I'd been too lazy to look it up and see what it's all about.

Also, photobucket won't work anymore unless you pay their ridiculous fee. You'll have to find a new photo host.

Photos for reference:

Tri-ad.jpg

3PBL4-72.jpg
Click to expand...
I don't know what Cold Steel internals look like when closed, but does the Nilte make contact with the stop pin when open?

The gap between lock and the stop pin on the Nilte made me question if this is another design difference.
 
Similar, but not the same. The lock bar is completely different.
 
AF said:
I don't get it. How do you disengage the lock?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you press down in the middle of the spring part, which would bow the whole thing enough to disengage it. Not sure though. I agree it also looks like the stop pin isn't implemented the same way as in the Tri-Ad, so I don't see an issue with it.
 
The entire premise of the Tri-Ad lock and the whole point of it, is that the force from the blade both negative and positive is transferred into a solid stop pin that sits between the blade tang and the lock bar/rocker, instead of the lock bar its self. It doesn't matter if you use a lock bar with convention spring like CS, an all in one lock bar/spring combo like we see here or a piece of candy. In my opinion if there is a solid stop pin between the lock bar and the tang making it vastly stronger to a conventional lock back, then it's basically copying the whole point of the Tri-Ad lock. Now personally, i would LOVE if all lock back knives were variations of the Tri-Ad. But there's all this red tape and patents etc. that i don't really get into. At a glance tho, if the tang does in fact wrap around the stop pin, AND the lock bar presses up against the stop pin, then yes, it obviously borrows heavily from the Tri-Ad lock concept. Changing the spring setup doesn't really hide that fact.
 
Mick_1KRR said:
The entire premise of the Tri-Ad lock and the whole point of it, is that the force from the blade both negative and positive is transferred into a solid stop pin that sits between the blade tang and the lock bar/rocker, instead of the lock bar its self. It doesn't matter if you use a lock bar with convention spring like CS, an all in one lock bar/spring combo like we see here or a piece of candy. In my opinion if there is a solid stop pin between the lock bar and the tang making it vastly stronger to a conventional lock back, then it's basically copying the whole point of the Tri-Ad lock. Now personally, i would LOVE if all lock back knives were variations of the Tri-Ad. But there's all this red tape and patents etc. that i don't really get into. At a glance tho, if the tang does in fact wrap around the stop pin, AND the lock bar presses up against the stop pin, then yes, it obviously borrows heavily from the Tri-Ad lock concept. Changing the spring setup doesn't really hide that fact.
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I don't think it accomplishes the same thing though. One of the key features in the tri-ad lock is the elongated hole around the lockbar fastener which allows the bar to slide up and down a bit; thereby maintaining pressure on the stop pin. The Nilte doesn't have that feature as far as I can tell.

It's a newer take on a conventional lockback. Perhaps inspired by the tri-ad lock, but not such that I'd call it a copy or a rip-off. I also don't think it's going to dethrone the tri-ad from the top of the lock strength heap.

I see no foul here. Just a nifty new take on a classic lock and a funky little knife.

I'll be curious to see how that spring holds up over time though. Looks like a lot of travel out of a thin piece of metal. Too soft and it'll fatigue, too hard and it'll snap.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
I don't think it accomplishes the same thing though. One of the key features in the tri-ad lock is the elongated hole around the lockbar fastener which allows the bar to slide up and down a bit; thereby maintaining pressure on the stop pin. The Nilte doesn't have that feature as far as I can tell.

It's a newer take on a conventional lockback. Perhaps inspired by the tri-ad lock, but not such that I'd call it a copy or a rip-off. I also don't think it's going to dethrone the tri-ad from the top of the lock strength heap.

I see no foul here. Just a nifty new take on a classic lock and a funky little knife.

I'll be curious to see how that spring holds up over time though. Looks like a lot of travel out of a thin piece of metal. Too soft and it'll fatigue, too hard and it'll snap.
Click to expand...

Yeah i agree it could well be different, i think my main thought is that if all it took to get around the patent on the Tri-Ad was to modify the spring a bit, there would be 2 things happening.

A - Andrew Demko wouldn't be limiting himself to only being allowed to make X amount of customs per year with the Tri-Ad (as stated in his contract to Cold Steel), and he'd be making a lot more money.
B - There would be a lot of other companies making lock backs that can compete easily with the Tri-Ad in the strength dept.

But hey honestly i'd love some spin offs on the Tri-Ad, any kind of pin that can add more strength to a lock back is a welcome idea to me :) And yep, i agree with you on the spring and wondering if it'll stand the test of time, only time will tell.
 
PURPLEDC said:
One thing to note is that patent law is territorial. A patent needs to be filed in every country you seek protection from.
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International patent treaties...
Both Italy and USA signed and ratified:
Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property,
Patent Cooperation Treaty,
Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights

Signed but not yet ratified by Italy:
Patent Law Treaty

etc...
 
Yep, it doesn't look like there's any fore/aft movement of the lock bar allowed like on a Tri-Ad, and it doesn't look like the lock bar touches the stop pin at any point (open or closed). The placement of the stop pin is reminiscent of the Tri-Ad, and there may be some strengthening of lock up with the tang wedging against the stop pin at the front and the lock bar at the rear, but the mechanics are different enough from the Tri-Ad that it still doesn't seem like an issue to me. :thumbsup:
 
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