trigger pull on pistols

wildmanh

wildmanh

Part time Leather Bender/Sheath maker
Joined
Jul 9, 2000
Messages
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Hi guys, last summer I bought my first Pistol a Ruger Single Six with ajustible sights and the interchangeable cyliners. Put well over 1300 rounds threw it so far and have been having lots of fun. Shot probably 400+ rounds of .22 WMR and the rest have been .22LR.

First paycheck of the year I got a membership to the local gun range and have gone 7 or more times. 3 times I rented pistols to try them out and have put one of the pistols on lay away a Beretta Neos .22 pistol. Fun gun. Anyways I've been shooting a friends 9mm S&W Sigma and rented the Springfield XD-9 once. Those are fun to shoot and in my budget as far as Ammo cost goes.

Now to my question; Both the S&W and XD have a Much longer trigger pull then my single Action revolver, and all the rifles I've ever shot. I'm curious, is there a Production 9mm pistol with a short trigger pull? The XD feels great in my hand but I have the hardest time hitting anything resembling groups with either gun.

Second question, could my poor aim be do to flinching before I pull the trigger since it is much longer them I'm used to or am I just to used to the lighter recoil of the .22? I've shot 12 gauge and I do great with that. My fathers old Winchester Model 12 has a short pull too. Help would be nice...

Thanks in advance! :D

Heber
 
A firm grip is necessary. Many shooters ,myself included, found that when they started shooting a 45 the 22 scores improved !! That's because the firm grip obviously needed for the 45 is also needed for the 22 for best accuracy !A single action trigger such as that on a 1911 is short but each type trigger is different and may take some time to get used to.
 
Modern day handguns have a lot of slack before they hit there second stage. I can shoot both the handguns you have mentioned well (consistent 3" groups at 25yds). The S&W Sigma has been known to have a horrible trigger. Autos that come to mind with little trigger slack are the Beretta 92, the sig line, and many more if I think of it. If you know how to shoot most of the other handguns there is very little trigger slack after you fire the first round (ie glock, springfield xd). Basically hold the trigger down after the first shot and let i creep forward till you hear or feel it click then fire again. If you let the trigger go all the way forward then you have to pull it all the way back. If you dont understand what I am saying I can explain it better. Hope this helps.
 
Long, creepy heavy triggers could be a result of lawyers advice to gun makers. Just saying.

I've shot a High Standard .22 target pistol with a 2-pound pull, and got my best pistol scores ever. In fact, everyone who shoots it gets one wild shot, then great results. There's a lot to a light pull.

Do you know a 'smith, Heber?


Mike
 
Revolvers often have better triggers than semi autos. You got spoiled by a single action Ruger. The shooting you've done with it polishes the action surfaces more and it just gets better and better. It is very hard to make a double action semi auto trigger pull as nice as a single action revolver pull.

I doubt flinch is causing your performance, though of course it could be. More likely, if you slow down and examine what is occuring with some dry fire exercises, you'll find you are pulling the gun out of sight alignment when you squeeze the longer travel semi auto trigger.


This has been a munk public service announcement, and no trees were killed in the typing of the post.



munk
 
wildmanh said:
Now to my question; Both the S&W and XD have a Much longer trigger pull then my single Action revolver, and all the rifles I've ever shot. I'm curious, is there a Production 9mm pistol with a short trigger pull? The XD feels great in my hand but I have the hardest time hitting anything resembling groups with either gun.
Click to expand...

Smith & Wesson's 59xx and 39xx series (9mm) are double action for the first shot and then single action, with a very short and crisp pull. I have a 3913 and it shoots great. Used to have a 5903 and that was good too.

Also, I have done quite a bit of shooting with a S&W99 which has that long double-action pull. The trick with that thing is to follow through with the trigger and pull it all the way back to the frame with each shot (when shooting for accuracy). I don't like it much and think the metal-framed guns are alot better.
 
If you like single action revolvers why not try a single action semi-auto?
Try a single action 9mm like the Browning Hi-power (with mag disconnect safety removed and/or a drop in aftermarket trigger that eliminates the disconnect safety). Cylinder and Slide Shop and Behlert precision sell aftermarket Browning triggers/parts. My Fn browning had an atrocious trigger pull with mag disconnect in, having it removed greatly improved the trigger pull.
The magazine disconnect safety prevents the gun from firing unless it has a magazine inserted. So even with a round in the chamber the gun cannot be fired unless it has a magazine inserted.
Of course buyer beware if you have the magazine disconnect safety removed then the gun WILL be fireable with a round in the chamber and the magazine removed.

Or you could just bypass the whole magazine disconnect problem and hunt up a colt 9mm Gov't model or 9mm Colt Commander.
And as mentioned above the services of a good pistol smith would be a good idea to tune that trigger.
 
Double action pistols have very little travel in single action. My Sigs, Berettas, H&K's all have very little travel in single action. I would rcommend if you get a Hi-power you get a double action. If you want a single action with a short crisp trigger look into the 1911 A1 style handguns. I have around 30 handguns and have shot hundreds. I wished you lived close by I would let you play with a few of mine till you found one that suited your needs.
 
Before I would blame the recoil or trigger I would check your grip.

Repetition= good grouping. Not the # of rounds you shoot but shooting each round exactly the same way each time. Little shifts in your grip will show up on the paper.

If on the first shot you have a even grip on the pistol and the second shot your grip is tighter with your ring and pinkie fingers, third you shift to most tension between the index finger and thumb your shots will index in 3 separate places.

Lets see if I can walk you threw this with the key board.

Hold the pistol in by the barrel/slide in your weak hand. (like a hammer)

relax your Dominate hand and extend it like you are going to shake hands with some one.

Bending at the elbow bring your dominate hand across your belly. Keep your hand relaxed and and your wrist straight.

Place the pistol in the thumb web of your dom. hand and grip it like your shaking hands. A firm hand shake not a death grip.

with your feet a comfortable distance apart and your arm straight at your side, relaxed, look down your arm and the pistol should be in a straight line with your arm. (Front sight, rear sight, wrist, elbow and shoulder.) trigger finger along the side of the frame. Make any minor adjustments to your grip.

Facing square to a target (any point you can safely aim at) keeping your arm straight raise the pistol to your line of sight. (don't drop your head to the gun , bring the gun to your eye, line of sight)

Your sights should line up (left to right) if not adjust your grip and try again.

Once you get the pistol lined up notice how it feels in your hand. This should be your proper grip and how you want the pistol to feel every time you pick it up.

If during this your hand or arm starts to tier or tighten up, stop and shake it off, relax and start over. You can repeat this several times and make sure you get to the same place each time.

Once I established this grip I practiced it until any thing else feels wrong.

This not only gives you a repeatable grip it also indexes the pistol to your natural line of sight and your body's center line. From this grip you can move on to any stance your comfortable with.

Learning your trigger is on you .LOL. Dry fire lots. Hope this helps.
 
ashtxsniper said:
Double action pistols have very little travel in single action. My Sigs, Berettas, H&K's all have very little travel in single action.
Click to expand...

I disagree. All examples of the above that I've shot (and I've shot a few) had plenty of travel in single action -- less weight, to be sure, but still plenty of movement compared to something that's single action only.

A very good double action will still be trickier to master than a single action, and you're going to find that very good double actions are rarer than hen's teeth. That's the nature of the beast, there's no getting around it. The solution is proper practice. You can have most cleaned up and/or lightened to make things easier but at the end of the day it's still going to be practice that makes the real difference. You can either track down one that feels similar to your single action and be out of luck with anything else, or you can develop proficiency with a more average specimen and be able to operate most anything else that comes your way. The latter is more difficult but worth it IMO.

As for the reduced accuracy, where are your shots impacting on the target relative to the bull?
Diagnostic Target for Right-Handed Shooters

Generally speaking you should be gripping the frame about as tightly as you'd grip a hammer -- firmly, but not white knuckled. This will also improve functioning if that had been a problem. Get your sight picture, line things up, and concentrate on holding it there while you press the trigger back. Do it slowly and take your time. Concentrate on making each detail perfect; sufficient repetition will make it automatic and allow you to shift your focus to other things.

Have another shooter observe you (not the weapon, not the target) while you do this. If you can procure dummy rounds or Snap-Caps (or simply empty cases if your pistol will chamber them from the magazine), have your partner mix one or two into the magazine out of your sight to check for flinching.

If you have not done so already, consider getting some instruction from a professional. An hour or two with the right coach will save hundreds of hours of experimentation and a lifetime of bad habits.
 
try a glock or a kahr, i would put a kahr pull up against a lot of revolvers, the pull is similar but smoother imho 'cuz ya arent making the cylinder go round but what do i know, also its very similar to my colt det special trigger pull imho.
 
Wow, thanks guys for the great posts! Please keep them coming. Sounds like I need to work on my grip.

Do to my membership level at the local range I get free hand gun rentals and discounts on ammo so I'll be testing the guns out more and trying whatcha all sugested. :)

Just got a Beretta U22 Neos today and next week I will be getting a Ruger Blackhawk .357 MAG/9mm. It's on lay away. I've wanted one for soo long I figured I'd get it for my Birthday next week. The 9mm will come after I've spent plenty of time with them. Monday I'll rent some 9mm's and test out the grip and such. Thanks again.

Heber
 
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